Oil Pressure

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Michel

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For those with 6.9s,

I am wondering what the oil pressure on a 6.9 should be at:

idle in neutral and
idle in drive


Also, what the books say.

Everyone's answer would be appreciated..
 

B13

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1.2bar at 550rpm idle in D

1.7 or 1.8 bar at 650 in P or N

Min Oel Pressure I think is the same as for every other MB engine, which is not less that 0.5bar at idle and the needle must move as soon as any revs are applied.

I.
 

Styria

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Hi Michel, it depends to a considerable degree whether the engine is cold or hot. As far as I know, the acid test relates to an engine at normal operating temperature, that is about 87 degrees centigrade.

If the reading is one bar, with engine idling and in gear, AND sitting at traffic lights, that ought to be okay - naturally, you'd want it to get to three bars once you start accelerating and driving at normal speeds - say 1500 rpm should hold the needle comfortably at three bars. However, you may well find that on SLOWING DOWN, the needle well quite readily drop from the three bar maximum down to two and a half, and then two, as you are further slowing down - the gradual slowing down is not something that I like, but I honestly don't think that it should be an issue one would have to worry about.

Just as a matter of interest, on ROVERS with the 3.5 litre V8 engine, there is an oil pressure gauge reading up to 60 lbs./sqin., but the normal reading, at 1500 rpm, with engine at normal operating temperature, should be about three bars.

On said ROVERS, there is also an oil pressure light which comes on at a reading of 7lbs./sq.in. or lower. Now, years ago I had a 3500 with 'poor' oil pressure reading, with the light coming on quite readily, even just slowing down. I drove that car for about two years without any apparent ill effect. When I pulled down that engine, its internals were certainly no worse than any other I had pulled down.

On 'Gleaming Beauty', we have had a couple of pretty hot days recently, and at idle, with "D" engaged, the oil pressure would be just below the '2' bar mark, but if the lever was pushed to neutral, the engine would just reach two bars. I consider that excellent, given the fact that "GB" is running slightly higher operating temperatures on account of a slightly faulty viscuous coupling. Hope that answers your query. Regards Styria
 
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Michel

Michel

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I took the 690SEL for a 100km drive into Sydney and around.

A little bit of freeway driving and lots of heavy traffic getting into and from shopping centres.

The Temp needle didn't get past 60-70.

The Oil pressure was on full at the slightest acceleration but registered
1.8 in Neutral and
2.0 in drive.

I was originally worried, but obviously these are obviously normal pressures,

Thanks Ian and Michael
 
G

GreaseMonkey

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I took the 690SEL for a 100km drive into Sydney and around.

A little bit of freeway driving and lots of heavy traffic getting into and from shopping centres.

The Temp needle didn't get past 60-70.

Surely not good, sounds too low, is the thermostat stuck open?

C.M.
 

Styria

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I took the 690SEL for a 100km drive into Sydney and around.

A little bit of freeway driving and lots of heavy traffic getting into and from shopping centres.

The Temp needle didn't get past 60-70.

The Oil pressure was on full at the slightest acceleration but registered
1.8 in Neutral and
2.0 in drive.

I was originally worried, but obviously these are obviously normal pressures,

Thanks Ian and Michael

Michel, spot on. I think your readings should be the other way around between Drive and Neutral. The M117 and M100 engines certainly show more fluctuation than the six cylinders of the sixties - they are the ones I am familiar with. The oil pressure needle on those would always be reading maximum, irrespective of driving conditions. Regards Styria
 
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Michel

Michel

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Michel, spot on. I think your readings should be the other way around between Drive and Neutral. Regards Styria

You're absolutely right Godfather.

It was a slip of the fingers...:D
 

Bandolero

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The temperature of the coolant is definitely too low. The correct thermostat for a 6.9 is 87c.
With the correct thermostat the temperature cannot drop below this amount as the thermostat will be fully closed.
Sounds to me like the thermostat is not closing properly.
If the motor runs too cool it will not run at the correct tolerances and also the Aux Air Valve will not shut off fully and so the idle will be too high till the temp rises. (Easy job to replace the thermostat.)
Also when the temp is at the correct reading you will find the oil pressure at idle will be lower than your current figures, this is not a problem.
 
G

GreaseMonkey

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Well that is what I asked earlier.
I know I have recently replaced thermostats in both the 450SLC and the 280E. both were running cool, both now 87 and much happier.
Oil pressure on both is no different, but using less petrol.
C.M.
 

abl567

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My 6.3, also a M100 engine, sits on 35 psi at idle in gear hot otherwise it is pegged to the 45 psi mark. The slightest touch of throttle pegs the needle to the stop and it does not drop as you slow, only a moment after you are stationary.
Temp sits on 175f , AC on or off, regardless of ambient conditions. The only times it has risen above that while driving is at Oran Park and chasing other 6.3s over the snowy mountians during the M100 rally
I guess the chap that rebuilt my motor had a clue or 2:D
Or I have magic tuning skills:cool:
 

Styria

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Well that is what I asked earlier.
I know I have recently replaced thermostats in both the 450SLC and the 280E. both were running cool, both now 87 and much happier.
Oil pressure on both is no different, but using less petrol.
C.M.

Unless I am mistaken, the 117 engine, certainly in the Saloon version, should have a 79 degree thermostat. Perhaps the SLC is different, although common sense would dictate otherwise.

A few years ago, I tried the 87 degree unit in a 450, but the engine simply ran too hot. Regards Styria
 

Styria

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2.1 bar hot idle in neutral
2.0 bar hot idle in drive

Bill

A man of few words, but certainly spot on readings. BTW, I get slightly lower figures, but my readings were taken on a hot day (38), with A/C engaged. Nevertheless Bill, your figures are excellent - the same as mine, with much gratitude on my part. Regards Styria
 

Styria

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Hi abl567, as you know, we did rebuild that motor quite a number of years ago - probably at least 12-14 years ago. As it so happened some considerable time later, the left hand rear part of the head developed a bad oil leak, because the heads were not retightened after the initial running-in period. This was because some 'knuckleheads' out western part of Sydney (NOT ST.Marys) basically refused to retighten the heads.

I did not know it at the time, but I am guessing a little even at this moment, it could well be that your engine is running a lower compression ratio on account of the replacement head gaskets that were fitted.

These are locally made units and my understanding is that they are thicker than standard. So, you may have a few ponies still lurking somewhere.

Regarding your oil pressure readings - of course, they're excellent. Mind you, though, and I really have no means to substantiate this, but I suspect that the M100 and M117 engines, possibly because of their hydraulic lifters, may be somewhat more subject to lower oil pressure readings. Anyone care to elaborate on this ? Like to hear from you. Regards Styria
 
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Michel

Michel

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I guess I need to change thermostats...

To make life simple for me, would any one care to tell me where it is located?
 

WGB

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A man of few words, but certainly spot on readings. BTW, I get slightly lower figures, but my readings were taken on a hot day (38), with A/C engaged. Nevertheless Bill, your figures are excellent - the same as mine, with much gratitude on my part. Regards Styria

Sorry Styria - let me elaborate.

My 6.9 is filled with Hyper-expensive 20-50 redline synthetic and is incredibly clean inside. I have not added any oil other than at filter change in my 15 months with the car which is one reason why I will continue to use the red-line as the car seems to like it. (even though it costs me $125 for 3.5 litres).

To put that in perspective Diesel Motors charged me $450 for an "A" service on my ML500 - which is really only 10 litres of Mobil 1 and a filter. ($955 for a "B" service - ouch)

The oil pressure has alway been as I have stated and this seems to have been a common idling pressure for M-B engines of all types of this era when new. I owned a 1987 126 300SE that always idled at 1 bar hot and a 1994 E280 that was 1.5 to 2 bar but after that M-B no longer fitted oil pressure gauges and now they no longer fit temp gauges either (Both my ML's have one but it is only accessible through the body computer and while it will display it if you wish the next time you start the car it defaults back to an odometer reading - anyway they both run at 85-90 degrees irrespective of outside temperatures).

Bill
 

WGB

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I guess I need to change thermostats...

To make life simple for me, would any one care to tell me where it is located?

Don't be too hasty my friend.

The thermostat is in a aluminium housing at the front of the engine at the base of the upper radiator hose. On 6.9's it can be very difficulty to get apart if it hasn't been dismantled for many years and/or the incorrect coolant hasn't been used.

My engine runs at about 75 on a cool day, 80 on a 30 degree day and about 90 on a stinker and as I have a receipt for a new water pump, thermostat and radiator clean out from AMG 69 and have since replaced the coolant with M-B blue I assume that I (and probably you as well) have both a 75 degree thermostat and an ageing temp gauge.

I wouldn't lose too much sleep unless you desparately need a full on heater in winter and if you are worried that it may be running too cool check with an infra-red thermometer to see what the correct temp really is.

Bill
 

Styria

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Hi Bill, I wonder if Chris (AMG69) actually fitted the 87 degree thermostat ? I know that I supplied him with the exchange water pump, but I suspect that Star Motors in Osborne Park actually did the whole job.

I know, it is normal tendency to fit a lower opening pressure thermostat, but I am with Bandolero regarding his opinion as far as the lower running temperature is concerned. It also alters the engine's mixture requirements, and I definitely think that more fuel is used if the engine does not reach its proper operating temperature.

As far as thermostat removal is concerned, you're quite correct when you state that one need one needs to be super careful in trying to remove the
housing - it is easy to damage them and they are not cheap to replace. Regards Styria
 
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Michel

Michel

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Don't be too hasty my friend.

The thermostat is in a aluminium housing at the front of the engine at the base of the upper radiator hose. On 6.9's it can be very difficulty to get apart if it hasn't been dismantled for many years and/or the incorrect coolant hasn't been used.

My engine runs at about 75 on a cool day, 80 on a 30 degree day and about 90 on a stinker and as I have a receipt for a new water pump, thermostat and radiator clean out from AMG 69 and have since replaced the coolant with M-B blue I assume that I (and probably you as well) have both a 75 degree thermostat and an ageing temp gauge.

I wouldn't lose too much sleep unless you desparately need a full on heater in winter and if you are worried that it may be running too cool check with an infra-red thermometer to see what the correct temp really is.

Bill


I know my radiator has been flushed and cleaned (by a radiator specialist) not so long aho and expensive MB coolant fitted.

I must check as to what happened to the thermostat at that time...

As it is my heater is working overtime... :rolleyes:

Will keep you posted..

Thanks
 
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