The "Styria" Thread

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Styria

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Ha!! - Just wait until Mr S has it lowered, fittted with timber, a budgie cage and some of that gorgeous carpet he has in the GB. It'll look pretty schmick!! Don't forget the exhaust too..
Regards,
BenzBoy

Hi BenzBoy,

There's no need to really touch the Statesman or modify it in any way. The only thing I want to do is to fit Sheepskins to the front seats to protect the leather, perhaps re-pad the driver's seat a little as the leather has stretched to some degree, but other than that I'll leave well alone.

Just did a consumption test over a distance of 334 kilometers - according to the on board computer. It also told me that I had used 40.1 liters of petrol, but the actual fill came to 36.1 liters at a cost of $58.44. I don't know who, and what is correct, but this consumption hovers near the 209 mile mark, using 7.94 gallons of fuel. That works out to 26.3 mpg. If, for some reason, the higher computer figure should be applied to the computer mileage of 334 kms., it still returns about 23.7 miles per gallon. I don't think I have much to complain about.

There is also one other item I am terribly pleased about. The large oval exhaust pipe exits very close to the bodywork, and wiping it with a chamois, it remains absolutely clean - no black smears nor sooty substances. That to me indicates that the engine appears to be well tuned with minimal mechanical wear. Regards Styria
 

Michel

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There is also one other item I am terribly pleased about. The large oval exhaust pipe exits very close to the bodywork, and wiping it with a chamois, it remains absolutely clean - no black smears nor sooty substances. That to me indicates that the engine appears to be well tuned with minimal mechanical wear. Regards Styria

There isn't much 'tuning' to do Godfather, as the onboard computer does that continuously with temperature changes or driver accelerating harshly or whatever affects the mixture....

Modern technology...:D
 

John S

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That model Statesman is a great looking car Styria - SWMBO should enjoy driving it.

Run a few tankfull's of fuel through it without resetting the computer, keep a record of the fill volume from the pump and then you can reset the computer to nearly match the actual usage. I never match the two exactly as I like some fuel to be left when the computer says none, just for safety reasons. You can do the same thing with the distance reading from the reference marks on the freeways if you want to.

Keep the oil changes and filters up to date and it should go on for years!
 

Styria

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Hi JohnS, thanks for the tip as far as the frequent oil and filter changes are concerned. From my experience with Rover V8 engines, I suspect that frequent or timely oil changes should greatly prolong the engine's lifespan and condition.

Apart from a fully documented service record in the owner's manual, I also obtained.....


HoldenStatesman.jpg

as well as the original Sales Document...


HoldenStatesman001.jpg

Yep, it is gratifying to have all this as part of the deal. Julie and I are now the original third owners. PICS STILL TO FOLLOW - PROMISE. Regards Styria
 

Michel

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how long did it 'live' in Bondi? :rolleyes:
 

Styria

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Hi Michel, I somehow knoew that someone would ask that question. The answer is a grateful "Never" - the Sales Invoice represented the business address.

I also have some pics to show this time - I still think it to be attractive, it drives well and I have come to notice that just about every Statesman I see appears to be clean and well cared for.

mercedesbenz-100years312.jpg
mercedesbenz-100years313.jpg

mercedesbenz-100years316.jpg

Gleaming Beauty and the Statesman appear to be equal in length - whilst 'GB' seems wider....

mercedesbenz-100years315.jpg

mercedesbenz-100years314.jpg

You do have to admire the well thought out and well appointed interior - on that score, I am wrapped....

mercedesbenz-100years319-1.jpg

mercedesbenz-100years318-1.jpg

Let's compare it with the Mercedes offering - perhaps the Benz has got it..


Copy2ofmercedesbenz-100years347.jpg

Also, I have just managed to fit absolutely beautiful sheepskins that used to be in a very, very nice 6.9 that, I think, you will be able to see at the Topklasse BBQ. Believe it or not, they fitted quite well.

Hi JohnS - isn't it totally paradoxocal that you have just sold your supercharged Calais and procured the C-Class, yet we are buying a similar aged Statesman to replace the silver 6.9. Strange script - hope you're as pleased with the C-Class as we are with the Statesman - mind you though, you must miss that effortless power. How do the two cars compare side by side - love to know. Regards Styria
 

Michel

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Good Looking Statesman at home in the 'burbs'....


Congratulations Godfather (and Mrs Gotfather).
I'm sure you'll be happy with it.
 

Styria

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Well, it's been a while since we have talked about "the one for styria". Some eight to nine months have passed since the acquisition of the Statesman and I thought I might just bring everyone (that's interested) up to date with happenings and what I think of the car and how it compares with the Gleaming Beauty 6.9.

So where does one start ? Interior perhaps, and some of the allied features. Yep, that'll do - after all, it is important that one should feel comfortable and relaxed sitting behind that steering wheel and, on that score, the Statesman with an additional twenty years of further manufacturing experience certainly must get the nod. It is surprising just how well thought out the Statesman is. For instance, it has the following features:

1) A tinted sunroof glass with an interior cloth panel that can be pushed forward to cut out any offending sunrays - it tilts as well, but the clincher is that it will atomatically close itself once the ignition key is removed. Brilliant on a car that age - I am not comparing with new cars. Gleaming Beauty, on the other hand, indeed has to make do with just opening and closing. That's it.

2) Audio Controls at your finger tips on the steering wheel - and whatsmore, it all functions very well and very accurately. In 1979, that sort of convenience was still a long way from reality.

3) Air Conditioning, Heating and Ventilation - all functions are just so dead easy to use in the Statesman. Individual control for driver and passenger in the front, dial in the required temperature (17-28 degrees), press the right buttons and hey presto, it's all done. In comparison, the controls in the Mercedes are somewhat confusing and, depending on the car, efficiency may not always be at its best. Again, you just have to give it to the Statesman and, whatsmore, by a healthy margin.

4) Push Button locking and unlocking - okay, it's handy to have, but I don't mind the Mercedes' key operated central locking system as long as it works ! Right ? Right ! However, where the Statesman has it is in the interior lighting system, Say at night, you press the "UNLOCK" button, and all interior lights come on automatically - and there are plenty of them, especially in the footwells, and it and the interior lights up like a Christmas Tree. Get in, close the door(s), and the lights extinguish themselves - just brilliant the way it's done. I am afraid the 6.9 is in fact twenty years behind on that score.

Generally, interior wise as far as space is concerned, the two cars are pretty well on a par with each other. Plenty of leg room both front and rear, the only draw back on the Mercedes relates to ingress and egress for the driver - ergonomically, a nightmare on the Mercedes, as one is inclined to scrape the trim panels of the doors with your feet and the steering wheel is ever so restrictive in your leg movement when , say, you're reversing.

There is one other thing I have forgotten - those wretched backrest adjustment wheels - what were they thinking ? Even 108's and 109's had a superior arrangement. On the Statesman - all done electrically ! However, once you are comfortably sitting in the front seats of the Benz, it is then a very comfy place to be in - especially with sheep skins. So, out of ten points - give the Statesman nine (why not ten ?), and Gleaming Beauty has to do with, wait, say 3 to four out of ten. Regards Styria
 
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BenzBoy

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It does sound as though you are quite dis-satisfied now with the 450SEL. Maybe it is time to sell it and move on?
That would be most sad.
Regards,
Benz-Boy
Edit; The interior of a 116 has a certain aesthetic that other manufacturers fail to attain but I guess if you are not comfortable then you are not comfortable.
 
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Styria

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This is a continuation of comparing the two cars. So, where is there for Gleaming Beauty to go after the hiding it has taken in the Interior Stakes ?

Yeah, perhaps one needs to go to Mechanicals and Dynamics, and actual driving experience. Here we have 6.9 liters compared to 5.7 for the Statesman. The 6.9 starts red-lining at 5300 rpm (earlier 6.9s at 5000), yet the Statesman is red lined at 5800 rpm. This to me would indicate finer balancing of engine components, yet you certainly could not fault the small block Chevy engine in its smoothness of operation. In fact, the 6.9 is a "gruff" engine - a bit truck like, not particularly quiet (in fact quite noisy) and nothing terribly smooth about it - say, a 420 in comparison, sounds like a sweetly revving sewing machine. You won't get that in a 6.9. Yet, blipping the throttle, the 6.9 motor happily runs to three and a half to four, a bit like a 6.3 but with more noise - believe it or not.

The 6.9 is excellent in the torque department - remember, it's only got the three gears (if someone gave it 'five' - whoa), but second gear, despite its theoretical 170 high speed, is very adequate in handling most situations in the acceleration stakes. I believe the Statesman to be faster to 100 kilometers an hour (6.1 ?), but it just does not convey that impression. One needs to use the gearbox in the Statesman but, quite frankly, it seems to be perfectly happy ambling along quietly at gentle speeds. I have never really driven the Statesman in 'anger' - it's not that sort of car, whereas the 6.9 continually urges you to 'go on, keep going faster' and, the faster you go, the better it likes it.

I also find that the steering on the 6.9 is more precise and conveys greater feel. You know what the front is doing, whereas on the Statesman the steering seems to be , well, disconnected from the body. Mind you, it's light, it feels okay, you couldn't really criticize it, but...it's funny. Suspension wise, again I give the nod to the 6.9. If in good condition, it feels beautiful, there is not a lot of road irregularity transmitted to the driver, whereas the Statesman lets you know that there is something going on underneath and, on broken surfaces such as you find in places like Sydenham, Newtown and, in fact, all over Sydney, the Statesman is decidedly uncomfortable. Mind you, I do know that the front McPherson struts are still the original White Power units (now there is quality !) fitted back in 1999, so maybe they are in need of replacement. I can't tell.

Cruising on the open road reveals the difference in gearing between trhe two cars. Fourth gear on the Statesman is an "overdrive' gear, with the engine spinning at about 1600 rpm at 100 kilomers an hour - as far as I can remember at the moment. In fact, third gear gives you almost equal gearing when compared to the 6.9's top gear - about 40 kilometrs per 1000 and the general consensus is that the 6.9 is overgeared !..well, it depends who you talk to - personally, that's not so. The 6.9 is like most Benzes - the faster you go, the better they like it.

Fuel consumption - the Statesman is excellent. About 10.5 liters, or a bit less on the open road. The 6.9 has to make do with about 13.5 to 16.0 per 100 - then again you have a larger engine and an old fashioned engine management and fuel system. Call me retrogressive, but I really think that all that pahlavi about small cars, fuel consumption and the thirst of V8's is just that - if you look at consumption figures for the latest V8 offerings from Holden is any guide, fuel costs are negligible. My son's HSV with the Mark II version of the Chevy Gen. IV engine gets 9.5 liters per 100 on the highway.

So, to sum up, the 6.9 is more of a driver's car, and perhaps somewhat more satisfying to drive. On the other hand, the Statesman is smoother and more restful. Regards Styria
 
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Michel

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Nice and Fair comparison Godfather.

I thought the Statesman would have gotten more shallacking on your part.
 

Styria

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Hi BenzBoy - not sure what you mean by 'escape the glue factory', but I try and be totally unbiassed AND realistic. To me, 6.9s are not the ants pants, but something that represents the just about the best that the '70s could offer. On that count, nothing touches them quality wise, all round ability and desire, and reliability.

Michel - one thing that I failed to mention is that, as a rule, I invariably spot one Statesman per day - on that, I am 90% right.

What I have also found, and 100% of the time, except for one example, that every Statesman is in immaculate, clean and beautifully cared for condition - and believe me, I do keep my eyes open. I really think that the models starting from 1999 onwards, are beautifully styled - I find it difficult to criticize them on that score. In fact, I tend to think that they look better than the later models with the altered trapezoid shaped grille and the higher, squared off boot area. Regards Styria
 

John S

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Hi JohnS - isn't it totally paradoxocal that you have just sold your supercharged Calais and procured the C-Class, yet we are buying a similar aged Statesman to replace the silver 6.9. Strange script - hope you're as pleased with the C-Class as we are with the Statesman - mind you though, you must miss that effortless power. How do the two cars compare side by side - love to know. Regards Styria

Styria is right, I did miss the effortless power initially. We decided to drop down to two cars from 3, so I sold the supercharged Calais and purchased an E240. The Calais (with options) cost a bit over $50,000 in 1999, and a new Calais is selling for not that much more now - Holden really has kept their prices down. Like Styria I was very tempted to buy a V8 Statesman but I needed one Mercedes for Club use.

I purchased the E240 with 30,000K's on the speedo. In almost two years I have put on another 30,000K's so it now reads 60,000K's, but I expect to only put about 10,000 K's a year on from now on.

What do I notice about the difference between the Calais and the Mercedes?
Believe it or not, despite the Mercedes being more than twice the price of the Calais, the Calais had convenience details that the Mercedes doesn't, making the Mercedes seem bare or basic by comparison.

Both cars have the sports suspension option, but the Calais felt crude in comparison to the Mercedes on rough roads. Holden seemed to have stiffened the springs and lowered the car but reduced the compliance, so (in comparison) it rode a little rough once you were on broken country roads. The E240 feels stiffer in roll, taught on winding roads and around roundabouts but does not convey the same degree of harshness as the Calais did.

The Calais steering was automatically speed-sensitive, being very light at parking speeds but firmer as the speed increased. The E240 feels similar throughout the speed range, never heavy but not light either.

Controls, the Calais had a number of controls on the steering wheel, such as variable speed intermittent windscreen wipers, only single speed on the E. The Calais had radio volume and station selection fingertip controls, the E240 has volume only unless the station option is selected, which is not as convenient. The Calais had automatic climate control, dial in the temperature you want and forget about it. The E240 has temperature select wheels, not as precise. For the seats the E240 has some power controls, but not all, while on the Calais all movements were powered.

The major difference between the two cars (similar in size) is in noise and torque. In acceleration the figures are similar, they are both V6's but 3.8 supercharged litres gives a totally different feel to 2.4 litres when you put your foot down on the road. Turning right off the M2 up Old Windsor Road, heading up towards the Seven Hills Road lights is where I first noticed the difference. The Calais would surge up with seemingly no effort, I have to put my foot down a little more with the E240 and let reves do the work, not torque. Cruising on the expressway at 110k’s the Calais was doing about 1800 RPM, the E240 about 3000! However the E240 is quieter, especially at idle when you would not know the motor is actually working. Top speed in both is similar, the E240 being listed as 233 K's (144.8 mph) and the 0-100 time is 9.1 seconds. I think that the Calais is a fraction slower in top speed but faster 0 – 100, so the Mercedes shape has a lower CD.

One of the big differences is in their gearboxes, the Calais had a 4 speed auto with standard control, the E240 is a 5 speed auto with lower or higher gears selectable by a tap on the gear lever. The Mercedes is also programmed to hold onto the lower gears at slow speed, which is great driving through 50 k zones or 40 k zones, which helps enormously if the road is sloping down as you can feel the car being held back from over speeding, so no chance of being booked. In cruise control the Mercedes system is also better, actually changing down a gear or two to keep within a few K’s of the set speed whereas the Calais would allow the speed to increase by up to 15k’s on steep declines.

The other difference is the brakes. Both have antilock and antislip, ESP etc, but only the Mercedes has Brake Assist. If you hit the brakes quickly / hard the car senses an emergency stop situation and applies the brakes much quicker than I would have thought possible. I tried it once on a vacant road and I seemed to stop at the point I applied the brakes! It was astounding! However I am glad that there was no one behind me, because I’m sure they would have hit me before they could react!

Then there is the fuel consumption. Driving to and from a club meeting on a Wednesday night the E240 comes in at between 9.5 and 8.9 L/100 – the Calais was generally around 15 L/100, and around the peak traffic hours consumption would be up to 17L/100. On a trip (say to Canberra and back sitting on 110 K’s) the Calais would be lucky to get down to 9.8 L/100, but I once actually got better than that when I cruised at 140. On the same Canberra trip at 110 K’s the E240 comes in around 8.5 L/100.

Am I happy with it? Well the more I drive it the more I enjoy it, but I am now automatically using the revs a bit more and, surprise, the fuel consumption actually seems to be reducing when driven this way. On one Club run to the Central Coast, driving smartly through winding and hilly back roads, starting and stopping on a regular basis, I was surprised to see the readout showing 8.3L/100K’s. Would I recommend an E Class to anyone? Yes I would, they are a great car; but for a 6.9 owner I would suggest that the 320 or the 430 should be tried before deciding what model as you would probably notice the difference in torque of a 240 more than I did. From what I have heard the 3.2 litre engine is a great match to the E Class body, not only giving a 10mph higher top speed but similar fuel consumption to the E240.
 
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BenzBoy

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"Hi BenzBoy - not sure what you mean by 'escape the glue factory', but I try and be totally unbiassed AND realistic. To me, 6.9s are not the ants pants, but something that represents the just about the best that the '70s could offer. On that count, nothing touches them quality wise, all round ability and desire, and reliability."
I had thought for one hideous moment that you were going to give TGB the chop!!! :p
The glue factory is where old horses were sent when they could no longer hack the pace....(hooves=gelatine=glue before synthetics.)
Regards,
Benz-Boy
 

Styria

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Hi JohnS, interesting reply and comparison - such as two so widely differing cars can be compared. Basically, you're confirming my findings - the ride quality over 'broken' bitumen and furthermore, intrinsically speaking your Mercedes is a better car from a dynamic point of view. That's been my experience with the 6.9. I have always subscriped to the theory that, with cheaper cars, handling would be bought at the expense of comfort, whereas an expensive car, as a rule, should provide you with both.

Just to continue on from the Statesman ownership theme, in most respects it has been quite a revelation and whatsmore, a totally fuss free and reliable motor car.

One must forget the notion that Holden parts, or more precise, Statesman parts, can be purchased at your local Supermarket. That may have been applicable in the '60s and '70s, but not nowadays. So what problems have we had, or items that required attention ? Surprisingly few in ten months and ten thousand kilometers. Firstly, there was the matter of the Alternator not charging. We are in the NRMA Road Service, and they will normally send out a subcontractor with a new Alternator and fit it on the spot. The same applies to battery issues.

Initially, this arrangement was agreed upon with the NRMA call station, but it did not take long to get a phone call that the Sub-contractor was not able to extend that facility to the Statesman. You see, they have a Mitsubishi Alternator, not easy to come by and, whatsmore, very expensive from the Holden Dealer - more than $800.00 retail. Repco quoted $410.00 after market and labour costs were on top of that. With the alternator being located right down 'in the mire' of whatever, it was not a job that I wanted to do. In the end, my 'trusty' Auto Electrician (I have recommended his services in the appropriate section) finished up reconditioning the unit at an all up cost of $350.00. Well done.

Have also replaced the battery (just a service item), and in addition the electric window regulator for the passenger front door packed it in. The cost of the replacement unit, which included a new electric motor, was $160.00 plus $60.00 in labor. Not too bad at all. The Mercedes unit is a fair bit more just for the regulator, with labor cost on top - about 2.5 hours. Other than that, the car has been trouble free except for a fuel pump relay that got fixed by NRMA Road Service.

One thing I have noticed is the potential cost of servicing, or replacing parts on the Chevy V8 engine. Items such as high tension leads, spark plugs etc., plus the individual ignition coils, can be quite costly. Whatsmore, there appears to be some difference in maintenance cost between the Series I and Series II engines, although I do not have enough experience nor knowlrdge to speak on this subject matter with any authority.

I have also found that the Statesman is a taller car than the 6.9, yet much lower to the ground. In fact, it is quite difficult to get a floor jack under the car. I did it once, but not again since then. I was going to degrease the underside of the engine bay, but there is a large protective 'plate' in situ which would have to be removed first. So far, I've not had the energy nor inclination to do so. Regards Styria

N.B. Fuel consumption, in traffic, appears to hover around the 15.3/100 km according to the computer read out - in real life, it is more like 13 liters - excellent for a V8.
 
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John S

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I had a problem with the alternator on my Calais too, and while it seems to be a fairly common fault for many cars, the problem can be avoided.

The auto electrician told me that the alternator puts out about 110+ amps to keep all the systems supplied, which is great but such a high output can lead to problems that don’t occur with cars of 20 years ago, but it's not the alternators fault.

What I was advised was that the battery leads, where they are connected to the battery and the body etc, can become corroded over time due to the speed bumps in shopping centers throwing battery acid around and into the bleed holes, acid vapor then causes corrosion.

The corrosion causes the resistance of the connections to increase, so the alternator output keeps increasing to overcome the resistance. This continuous high amperage then overheats some electrical components in the alternator eventually burning them out and a new alternator is then required.

There are two ways to avoid this expensive problem
1- clean the battery terminals at each service and check the earth connection.
2- go slowly over the speed humps in shopping centers so the battery acid doesn’t get thrown around – this also extends the life of the battery.
 
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Styria

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Hi JohnS, that's interesting to know. I did initially have some battery terminal corrosion and it was one of the first items I attended to. It recurred fairly quickly (within a matter of some seven to ten days) and I mentioned this to the aforementioned "Sparkie" who suggested that it was a faulty battery.

I had also been told some years ago by another very knowledgeable "Sparkie" (good title, that) that Alternators could be overcharging the system - hence your thoughts - and he suggested exactly what you had been told. Anyway, in the end, the battery packed up and that was the first itewm that was replaced. It gave up the ghost - as they invariably do overnight..and without warning. Regards Styria

N.B. Speed humps in Shopping Centres - a la Winston Hills. The Statesman absolutely detests them and I hate them - except when I am in my Benzes. The Shopping Centre installed an additional one right at the top of the entrance ramp - the first time I hit it (drove over it !) I thought that the suspension on the Statesman had collapsed - it was that bad. Nowadays, up and over, easy does it, ever so gentle and gingerly.......
 

John S

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If you get a chance have a talk to a NRMA replacement battery guy, he will probably confirm that the usage of batteries has gone up since the speed bumps were introduced (one I spoke to did) and now I ease over them, but a lot of the ladies out shopping fly over them, so it's got to be good business for some battery manufacturers.
 

OzBenzHead

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If you get a chance have a talk to a NRMA replacement battery guy, he will probably confirm that the usage of batteries has gone up since the speed bumps were introduced (one I spoke to did) and now I ease over them, but a lot of the ladies out shopping fly over them, so it's got to be good business for some battery manufacturers.
To say nothing of the females who "park by feel" in shopping centres! :rolleyes: I watched one just last week and she took seven -- yes, SEVEN -- swings at a perfectly normal-sized parking spot. She was driving some nasty little Korean PoS and still managed to clip an adjacent car, at which point she simply locked up and went shopping -- no note, nothing.

Of course, I left a fully detailed note under the damaged car's wiper. Who knows -- someday I might need that karma returned.
 
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