Steering groaning when turning right.

[B13]

So when i turn right, there is an audible groan and a slight vibration in the steering. Only when going right. Going left is silent and smooth.

Its not the lound angry groan you get from the steering on these cars if its low on fluid. Its not low on fluid.

Yesterday I had both tie rods and the steering damper changed, as I thought the SD has worn out causing the groan (it hadn't). One TR-end had failed so I took the opportunity to replace both tie rod assemblies.

My mech said its air in the system, because it only happens when turning one way, but I said these systems are supposed to be self-bleeding, you just swing the wheel from full Left to full Right a few times.

Any ideas on how to properly bleed my steering? The box has no free play, no leaks and the coupling is good. The car is a 6.9

I.

 

[SELfor50]

So when i turn right, there is an audible groan and a slight vibration in the steering. Only when going right. Going left is silent and smooth.

Its not the lound angry groan you get from the steering on these cars if its low on fluid. Its not low on fluid.

Yesterday I had both tie rods and the steering damper changed, as I thought the SD has worn out causing the groan (it hadn't). One TR-end had failed so I took the opportunity to replace both tie rod assemblies.

My mech said its air in the system, because it only happens when turning one way, but I said these systems are supposed to be self-bleeding, you just swing the wheel from full Left to full Right a few times.

Any ideas on how to properly bleed my steering? The box has no free play, no leaks and the coupling is good. The car is a 6.9

I.

It might sound bad, but this is great timing Ian.. I've had exactly the same symptons a few times over the past couple weeks, with the 6.9.
I used to have similar symptons with the fordedes, but I thought that was related to the engine conversion and possilby different/custom engine mounts.. and knocking when turning at certain points (maybe due to slightly chassis twisting?!)

BUT, now that it's happening with teh 6.9, and it's mainly the same type symptons - i'm thinking it' might be the steering too?

To confirm Ian, is it like a groaning that sounds a little like a grind and it vibrates / knocks through the steering but doesn't happen everytime?
Does yours occur everytime you turn right, regardless of how hard / fast / far your turning the wheel?

 

[TJ 450]

Along with a few other "minor" problems, I'm experiencing exactly the same groan when turning right with my 6.9. I had this same problem with the 450 a while back and it was due to a fluid leak at the steering box, the adjuster screw to be precise.

I have done a small amount of investigation on the matter and it appears that the return fluid line is leaking, even though the fitting iself is tight. I'm convinced that sound is indicative of air entering the system somewhere, but not necessarily low fluid level.

Tim

 

[Styria]

Interesting. Reading between the lines, I would have said that it is more of a 'creaking' noise, rather than the 'groaning' one experiences when low on fluid in the steering pump reservoir. Am I correct in that assumption ?

I have experienced the same symptoms with Gleaming Beauty - not very often, just occasionally and I have come to the conclusion that it is an internal problem with the Steering Box. I am not familiar enough, nor knowledgeable enough, to suggest which part in the box is likely to be at fault, but I would suggest that it is more than likely to do with the internal valving. I will have the opportunity to carry out further investigations by the end of the month and report my findings. Also, our good friend S-Class in SA is very experienced in all matters concerning Power Steering, and hopefully he may be able to shed some light with diagnozing the problem. Regards Styria

 

[Michel]

May I suggest you guys check your gearbox mounts.....

If it is worn or broken, you'll find this to be a cause as you turn right...

 

[450SE]

May I suggest you guys check your gearbox mounts.....

If it is worn or broken, you'll find this to be a cause as you turn right...

Funny you mention that Michel, my mechanic has suggested replacing the engine & gearbox mounts on the 450 sometime over the next 12 months to make the car feel smoother at idle. Sure enough, from time to time, mine gives out a little groan when turning right into a street or driveway...
Will be very interested to see the difference it makes.

 

[TJ 450]

May I suggest you guys check your gearbox mounts.....

If it is worn or broken, you'll find this to be a cause as you turn right...

There's nothing wrong with my gearbox and engine mounts... they're all brand new, although it's a possibility.

I think you may be onto something there, Styria. The noise I'm experiencing only occured after adjusting the steering box, although I also had the lines disconnected.

Also, the upper control arm bushes can produce a real creaking sound if they are dry.

Tim

 

[s class]

I accept that a collapsed gearbox mount may be involved, but why should it affect specifically right turns?

Sorry I can't really give any words of wisdom on the internals of the boxes. My only experience in this regard is the groaning can be worse when the sector shaft to piston clearance is too tight.

 

[B13]

Here's a video taken yesterday of the steering groan in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hppnerf0nH4

I.

 

[TJ 450]

That's the same sound mine makes. Thinking back, it made that sound before I adjusted the box. The fluid is at the maximum line when warm.
I am using DX-III ATF. Surely the only thing that could make such a sound is fluid aeration... how it gets in there, I don't know.

I would check the adjuster grub screw lock nut is tight, although this is no easy task on a 6.9 with that manifold in the way.

Tim

 

[oscar]

Just noticed Ian's vid and this thread. FWIW, my 350 has had this groan for ever, not as loud, but like others said you feel it thru the steering wheel. It's not dependant on fluid level, and the car doesn't have to be moving. My gearbox mount was replaced without changing this groan and it only happens when I turn the steering wheel to the right.

I have wondered if it was the steering damper and a few other things but based on others' posts, it's not the answer.

I'm wondering now if it only happens at a standstill and at very slow speeds like whilst backing down a driveway for instance. I can't remember if I notice it as much at speed but then again I don't take T intersections at 90km/hr, but the thought had struck me if the tyres somehow contribute. I think not, but on some surfaces whilst turning the steering wheel at a standtill, you might see a tyre judder as it's forced to turn.

Re fluid aeration, repetitive sideways g-force from tight corners will push a bit of fluid out the cap each time and will eventually suck air in. Whether air causes the judder or not I'm a bit sceptical.

Though if you wanted to purge the box, probably best taking the pitman arm off and then going full left and full right. Doing lock to lock turns whilst the pitman arm's connected doesn't turn the box through it's full range of movement.

 

[John S]

Do you have your foot on the brake when you get the sound?

 

[B13]

In the video I have both the handbrake and footbrake on, and the car is idling in D at its normally slow idle speed (600rpm).

I.

 

[TJ 450]

It sounds to me like something is allowing the fluid pressure to oscillate (inside the box). It coincided with fluid leaks at the steering box on both of my 116s and it is present only when turning right. I had the wheel alignment done on my 6.9 recently and miraculously the symptoms ceased.

Tim

 

[SELfor50]

Ok... only just scoped the vid as well.
This is a little different to what's happening with mine.

It only happens when I turn left, and it doesn't happen at idle. Only when moving, but as oscar's said moving slowly. If i'm going at decent pace then it doesn't happen.

Wheel alignment seemed to stop the symptoms TJ??