Tyres

[BenzBoy]

I was asked today which tyre I had intended to put on the 450.
Just for the public record it was the Maxxis MA-P1 205/70/14 - H rated.
$110 fitted with new valve stems etc.
http://www.maxxistyres.com.au/tyredetails.php?id=4&cat=1
Regards,
Brian

 

[Oversize]

They also have 215s for the 6.9 but they're only S rated. Should be ok for normal driving and you can even have the whitewalls visible if you so desire....

http://www.maxxistyres.com.au/tyredetails.php?id=2&cat=1

 

[sean sherry]

I have often wondered how an Insurance Company would view a claim if the replacement tires were a lower rating than the originals. i.e., blame the tires just because they not Std. to the car. Even with our low speed limits , 110Ks max, everywhere, except N./T, it would be an obvious out for them ???
Sean

 

[Oversize]

Here the minimum legal speed rating is 180kmh (S) unless you fit retreads.... Then it's 140kmh (N) as per taxis. In fact the ADRs seem to indicate 100kmh (J) if the retread is undertaken according to the standard. But there's no way I'd fit retreads; especially not on a 6.9!

 

[BenzBoy]

The question about insurance and a lower speed rated tyre is a vexing one. In Aus. we can't use the speed of an H or V rated tyre so on the surface it would appear we could use the lower rating that is still inside our legal limit.
However, 2 points:
1. An H rated tyre has a stronger construction than an S rated. I was advised by my tyre expert that it is necessary to consider obtaining an appropriate speed + load rating to get a tyre capable of handling the stress of a heavy car in an emergency situation.
2. My insurer advised me that if I fitted a lower speed or load rated tyre than is indicated by the manufacturer, then if it could be shown the tyre contributed to an accident (such as a forensic report after a fatal accident) then they would consider the insurance had been voided by the fitting of incorrect tyres.
S 180 km/h
• T 190 km/h
• U 200 km/h
• H 210 km/h
• V 240 km/h
• W (ZR) 270 km/h
• Y (ZR) 300 km/h
• ZR Above 240 km/h
My CLK has ZR rated tyres and MB refuses to fit any lower rating as a replacement on the grounds that the extra strength is required to handle the potential stress at our legal speeds. The CLK also has a B pillar sticker stating that only ZR rated is to be used. I would be quite happy to drive at 240 KPH if we had the roads and no flashing lights...
In the end, I don't know. I would have thought an S rated would be OK but it seems this may not be the case.
I guess the only thing is to take the advice of your insurer or take a risk. In the end speed is usually given as the cause of an accident simply because that is politically correct.
Buggered if I know.
Regards,
Regards,
Brian
Edit - you may also want to read what Tyrepower has to say on the matter. I do not know if they are correct about the legality or otherwise - http://tyrepower.com.au/index.php/tyres/tyre-tips/tyre-loadspeed-rating

 

[260ebenz]

Brian are you happy with the Maaxis tyres?

 

[BenzBoy]

Brian are you happy with the Maaxis tyres?

Tim, you may need to read my initial post. It was written in the past conditional tense. I sold the car, surely you remember that?
Regards,
Brian

 

[260ebenz]

Tim, you may need to read my initial post. It was written in the past conditional tense. I sold the car, surely you remember that?
Regards,
Brian

Woops sorry Brian my mistake slightly embrassed now!

 

[Michel]

Woops sorry Brian my mistake slightly embrassed now!

 

[sean sherry]

Thought I should look to see what Tyres I have on My 107 280 SL. Supplied by The Spinning Wheel in Sydney recently. Surprise, surprise they fitted H Rated to match the car 's max speed , about 210 KPH. My take on this is that to be safe in an Insurance Claim the Tyre Rating should match the Max speed of the Vehicle. Blow an under rated Tyre and write off somebodies Roller and then sell the house to pay the disputed claim ! (Sorry about your car Brain )......Sean

P.S. 4 Michelins at $600

 

[Oversize]

At the end of the day it's what in your insurance policy that counts. Shop around if you're not happy, because the law in Victoria states minimum of S, or the top speed of the vehicle; whichever is the LESSER.... (RSVR 2009, Schedule 2, Clause 52).

Load ratings are a bit different but VicRoads specify it must be no less than what's stated on the placard (Vehicle Standards Information #26).

On a 6.9 that equates to a min load of 97 and clearly the Maxxis aren't quite there at only 96, but they'd be well within the safety margin as long as the vehicle isn't overloaded. Unfortunately I have seen people fit tyres with far lower load ratings than what's required and they clearly have no clue, don't care, or just buy the cheapest available.

So what do you do when you just can't BUY the right tyres??? It's not like we're spoilt for choices and I'd definitely buy ones that were correct if they were available at less than stratospheric prices. ATM if an LVT was to pick up on the issue with the Maxxis (or your insurance co), the ONLY option would be to buy the Michelins

 

[Oversize]

In fact I just checked Michelin's Aussie website and they don't even list the 215/70R14.... So the ONLY option is the Maxxis unless you privately import your own tyres where they may not comply with the ADRs anyway.... Aaaaaaahhhh!

 

[Oversize]

Edit - you may also want to read what Tyrepower has to say on the matter. I do not know if they are correct about the legality or otherwise - http://tyrepower.com.au/index.php/tyres/tyre-tips/tyre-loadspeed-rating

Obviously their legal team didn't do their homework... I'd say they're being cautious, but they should have a disclaimer in there somewhere. It's not dangerous unless you exceed the limits on the tyre. And if you stick to the posted speed limit there's no way you'd get close.

Load and speed ratings aren't the be-all end-all. Ever checked the limits on your micro space saver spare? You'd be surprized to find they're quite high but they specify a max speed of 80kmh due to the rolling diameter and width which upsets the handling and balance. Adverse handling is a big no-no when it comes to modifications....

I'd suggest speed and load requirements will vary from state to state. What's been advertised is just a marketing tool to sell more expensive tyres with greater margins!

 

[BenzBoy]

Antique Tyres will probably supply whatever you really need as they will import from elsewhere in the world for you - but you will pay. http://www.antiquetyres.com.au/
Some of their stuff is reasonably priced but if they bring in a set of 4 for you then expect to pay for a lot of transport costs and add-ons.
I'll declare my interest here as the Sydney distributor is a friend and provides me with extra garaging space - at a price.
Regards,
Brian

 

[SEL_69L]

The standard tyre on a 6.9 is a 215/70/14. Overall diameter is 656.6 mm.
It would be inadvisable to increase the width of the tyre, because if the suspension allows the car to lower too much, the edge of the mudguard could collapse onto the tyre, especially if the front wheels are not in the straight ahead position.

My car has the same width wheels as the 14'' Bundts for the 6.9 , with the same offset, but they are 15" wheels from a W126, with the 15 slot pattern.
For some years, the car was fitted with 215/65/15 H tyres, overall diameter 660.5mm.
Relative to the standard spec. 14" tyres/wheels above, the oveall gearing due to the larger tyres, is increased by 0.6%. This would trend towards, and eventually equal, the standard diameter, as the 15" tyres loose tread depth, due to wear.

There is less compliance in a 65% tyre than there is in a 70% tyre, and so the suspension bushes have a slightly harsher time. If ANYONE has lower profile tyres it is advisable to keep the car on smoother roads.

My car has recently been fitted with 225/60/15V tyres, so now I have to be even more careful to stick to smoother roads, and
to park the car with the front wheels in the straight ahead position.
The overall diameter of the 225/60/15 tyres is 651mm, and so the overall gearing is now reduced by 0.85%, and so the car should accelerate better, but I expect the better performance would not be noticeable. I also expect that fuel economy would be 0.85% worse. As the tyres wear down in tread depth, instead of approaching standard specification for diameter, that trend is now set to diverge further away from standard.

I have found by experience that 36 psi gives the best tread life for tyres fitted to my 6.9.
I would guess that may be a little too much for a lighter engined 2.8, 3.5 or 4.5 litre car.

 

[BenzBoy]

The standard tyre on a 6.9 is a 215/70/14.

Yes - and Mr Oversize's point is that this size is currently available only in S rated. Thus the discussion about ratings and insurance. So when your tyres wear out what will you do?
Regards,
Brian

 

[SEL_69L]

Buy a cheap set of W126 wheels with the same offset as for the 14" Bundts, and fit 215/65/15H tyres.

215 /65/15H is the standard specification for a Toyota Tarago, and these tyres are about $120 cheaper per corner than the 215/70/14 Michelins as fitted as original equipment on a 6.9

215 tyres instead of 205 or 195 tyres, would go quite nicely on a 450 SEL, and no problem with a collapsing suspension, either!

 

[SEL_69L]

96 is a load rating commonly seen for passenger car tyres.
Such a tyre is rated to carry a maximum load of 710 kilogrammes.
That is the load rating for the tyres currently fitted to my car.
For a 6.9, which is very heavy in the front end, and that is not too much of a safety margin.

The empty weight of a 6.9 is 1935 kilogrammes.
Fully loaded, with 4 x 100 kilogrammes of people, 150 kilogrammes of luggage and 80 kilgrammes of fuel, that maxes out at around 2,500 kilogrammes.

I have never had my car fully loaded, but even when there's just me in it, there is still not much less weight over the front two tyres.

The implication for me (and for others), is that the tyres MUST be replaced when their legal age has been reached. If my memory serves me correctly, that is seven years, from the date noted on the tyre.
If that period is exceeded, high speed tyre failure is risked. Insurance companies may well 'cop out' in the event of an accident, due to tyre failure.

For the record load ratings are:
70: 335 kgs per tyre
80: 450 kgs per tyre
90: 600 kgs per tyre
100: 800 kgs per tyre.

You can interpolate between these for your own application.

 

[SEL_69L]

I have just found another VERY GOOD reason for not increasing the tyre width beyond 225mm:
You can't store the spare tyre in the boot wheel well, and lower the boot floor lid onto the spare tyre, so that the lid sits flush with the boot floor, if the tyre width exceeds 225mm.

I would find that annoying.

It also implies that you can't go less than a 60% profile, unless you leave the tyre outside diameter too small. Another impliction is of benefit to the suspension: the bushes in the suspension don't receive an overly harsh time, with low profile tyres.

 

[Oversize]

The Tyre and Rim Association of Australia lists a 215/70R14 tyre at 658mm rolling diameter.

In Victoria tyre age has no bearing on legality. They only have to be free of any apparent defects that may make them unsafe (including significant stress cracking).

The correct load rating for a 6.9 is 1610lb (or 730kg) as stated on the placard; that's for each tyre. 730kg x 4 = 2920kg.

Bearing in mind the max GVM of a 6.9 is 2420kg and the curb weight is 1935kg, it gives you a luggage capacity of 485kg. Curb weight (DIN 70020) includes and full tank of fuel and a 75kg driver.

Above 2420kg and you're actually exceeding the GVM of THE VEHICLE (not the tyres). The manual goes on to say max. axle load is 1245kg (front) and 1175kg (rear), which is 622.5kg (f) and 587.5kg (r) on each side . That's the max. mass on each side of each axle, not the minimum load rating of the tyres.

If you did equate that max. mass to a tyre load rating, you'd get 92 and 90 respectively. There's a large safety margin when MB specified 97, so really 96 is more than sufficient. However, convincing an insurance company is not an easy task; they have their policies and no discussions shall be entered into, unless they offer tailored policies.

Even on standard tyres, if you turn the wheels of a 6.9 and the suspension collapses, you'll wreck the guards. It's the same with any car if a spring breaks with the wheels turned. Tyre width isn't an issue as long as wheel offset is between et11 to et30 and they don't rub, foul or protrude.

I wouldn't be changing to 15s as I have no doubt you'll have similar problems sourcing tyres with the correct specifications. Even 16s are a problem and 17s aren't that popular either. 18s are the best (but expensive) and you risk a harsh ride and suspension bushes failing prematurely. Plus finding 18" wheels in the correct offset has been extremely difficult (but not impossible).