Class Action

[sean sherry]

Another reason to drive 6 speed Manuals...
There is now a Class Action suing Ford for faulty Duel Clutch Automatics.
Apparently 70,000 of them. Doesn't say who is the .Manufacturer . not necessarily Ford.
A repeat of similar a Class Action in the States

 

[Styria]

You did indicate, Sean, that VW have abandoned the idea of dual clutches from their passenger car range. Furthermore, I also understand that the 1.2 (or 1.4) petrol engine with both Turbo and Super Charging as fitted to the Polo have been discontinued as well. Problems like those are really quite horrible to contemplate and, whatsmore, cope with. Read in the Motoring section the other day about a Volkswagen purchased in December of last year has spent the best part of two months at the dealership rectifying (or trying to) an untold number of problems.

Incidentally, I also read the other day that the Mini Cooper as produced by BMW has the worst liability record of any car. Others in that category (lemons) were three Jeep models, and some VW model - the exact details escape me. Oh, Nissan Utes also copped a hammering. Regards Styria

 

[abl567]

And those of us who paid "over-inflated" prices for a Toyota or 2 on the promise of high resale prices and mind numbing reliability are rewarded with...


high resale prices and mind numbing reliability

Granted my experience is based on 2 new Hilux 4WD Dual cab utes and the driving experience is on par with the reliability...

 

[sean sherry]

"Customer Satisfaction Program"... Ford do have a way with words explaining a fix for their Duel clutch Automatics.
Reminds me of a Program when I worked at a Ford Dealership fixing the front suspensions on the then new Falcons.
Replacing all the Ball Joints was termed a "Product Improvement Program. "It involve chiselling out the rivets on the top and bottom Wish Bones and bolting in new Ball Joints. The replacement B/Js were filled with Molybond Grease.

So far so good with my 6 speed manual Golf, same as the last one that I wrote off, no issues. Neither has seen a Dealership and long may it continue !

 

[motec 6.9]

Imagine most Euro car companies trying to stay in business trying to validate 5 or 7 year warranties .

 

[Styria]

I would imagine that we'd have another NSU disaster going back to the '60s - remember the ill fated Wankel engine ? It broke NSU. Regards Styria

N.B. NSU also made beautiful Motorcycles. I still remember them as a kid in Austria in the '50s.

https://youtu.be/EbLVDTJ9fio

 

[sean sherry]

Yes Styria ,NSU should have stuck with Motor Cycles. I well remember their Super Max 250's sweeping all before them in the fifties. Even the 350 Manx Nortons could not keep up with them. The unique design of the Engines is worth a look in Google.
It is interesting that Ford, GM and ZF are all developing 10 speed Hydraulic Automatics. Mercedes all ready have a nine speed. All in the name of fuel consumption and hence emissions. Keeping the engine revs in the most efficient area. The much more simple CVT does the same thing with two variable pulleys. Think back to my 1913 500cc Rudge Motor cycle, Pulleys were mechanically operated by a hand lever. Worked very well except that the belt hated Rain !

 

[sean sherry]

CVts won't take the higher torque I hear you cry....... Well simpley double up on the drive belt .q.e.d.

 

[c107]

The much more simple CVT does the same thing with two variable pulleys.

It might be because my experience is with cheap rental cars (of which I have all too much experience), but the 3-4 times I've driven a CVT I've found it a hateful experience. Ruined the whole car.

 

[sean sherry]

But ,But, most cars are just A to B. My Daughters Subaru CVT 6/7 seater of some sort has been fine for 6 years. Son in Law once complained that it was in high gear too much.. use the Gear lever was my advice.. since then no complaints.

 

[Michel]

I think the CVT hate is simply because one feels that the clutch is slipping as you accelerate.
If you floor it, you hear this high rev pitch that feels like the car is revving and not going anywhere.
But...
It is an audible illusion as in reality you are moving in a very efficient rev range.

 

[c107]

I think the CVT hate is simply because one feels that the clutch is slipping as you accelerate.
If you floor it, you hear this high rev pitch that feels like the car is revving and not going anywhere.
But...
It is an audible illusion as in reality you are moving in a very efficient rev range.

The main issues i have with them are:
- trying to do a quick overtake or go into a small gap and the they get bogged down and take forever to realize they should let the car rev up
- the vibration and shaking at full throttle
- they get confused at times and are in the wrong ratio

 

[sean sherry]

Yes Michel, the most efficient Rev range is what it is all about. An A to B piece of transport. As with all Automatics they can't think nor see the road ahead, that's why they have an over ride gear lever to ensure the best gear ratio for a coming road /traffic condition.

 

[BenzBoy]

I've never driven a car with CVT. What cars have them?
What are they like to drive?
regards,
Brian

 

[c107]

They are very common with economy cars like small Toyotas and Nissans. The manufacturers like them because they are cheaper to make and they can offer lower fuel consumption than a torque converter auto.

The CVT attempts to keep the revs in the optimum power band of the motor so when you accelerate the revs stay constant and the car gains speed. Hard acceleration has the car staying near redline until you gain speed. Some people find this disconcerting but you quickly get used to it.

They have a reputation for being fragile and certainly the ones from the mid 2000s were. Apparently they are now more robust. The simple way to think of how it works is a metal band and two conical pulleys which move to adjust the ratio. The early ones would have overheating problems on acceleration due to friction as the ratio changes.

Regardless of anyones like/dislike for the CVT they are now in a large number of entry level cars due to fuel consumption and cost.

I've never driven one i thought was any good because the theory doesn't match the reality. The engines they are mostly used on are small economy models and the CVT struggles to react in time when you want power - like the early throttle by wire cars in the 90s. In addition the power takeup is rarely smooth (can get quite jerky) and the CVT finds itself in the wrong ratio and is unable to react in time. I suspect the whole concept would work better on an engine with a flatter torque curve.

 

[BenzBoy]

They are very common with economy cars like small toyotas and nissans. The manufacturers like them because they are cheaper to make and they can offer loeer fuel consumption than a torque converter auto.

The CVT attempts to keep the revs in the optimum power band of the motor so when you accellerate the revs stay constant and the car gains speed. Hard accelleration has the car staying near redline until you gain speed. Some people find this disconcerting but you quickly get used to it.

They have a reputation for being fragile and certainly the ones from the mid 2000s were. Apparently they are now more robust. The simple way to think of how it works is a metal band and two conical pullys which move to adjust the ratio. The early ones would have overheating priblems on accelleration due to friction as the ratiochanges.

Regardless of anyones like/dislike for the CVT they are now in a large number of entry level cars due to fuel consumption and cost.

I've never driven one i thought was any good because the theory doesn't match the reality. The engines they are mostly used on are small economy engines and the CVT struggles to react in time when you want power - like the early throttle by wire cars in the 90s. In addittion the power takeup is rarely smooth and the CVT finds itself in the wrong ratio and is unable to react in time. I suspect the whole concept would work better on an engine with a flatter torque curve.

Thank you Bryce. In my ideal world all cars will be manuals and to hell with those who can't drive properly. I'll make an exception for those missing a leg or arm as they clearly need an auto box.
Regards,
Brian