450SEL - Starting problems

[Styria]

Very peculiar - it is something that in fifty years of car ownership I have never come across. Picture this scenario - turn on ignition, no petrol gauge reading, crank car with key but will not start, but there is spark from coil to distributor. Fuel pump working, but did not check for flow.

Next scenario - all of a sudden, gauge working, car fires and runs nicely, but as soon as the BRAKE PEDAL is applied, the engine stops, the gauge no longer works, and the car will not re-start. In other words, applying the brake pedal renders the fuel supply non-existent. Is there anyone outthere in TK land that would like to suggest a remedy ? As I said, I have never come across this before. Regards Styria

N.B. I need to correct the last sentence of the first paragraph - on reflection, I am quite sure that the fuel pump was not working. Sorry about that.

 

[Lukas]

Curious.

Is the brake pedal thing repeatable (so that you can definately pin it to the brake pedal rather than circumstance)?

Was the car moving when the brake pedal was applied?

If it is repeatable and the car is stationary the whole time, think about what happens in the car when the brake is applied - brake hydraulics pressurised (no link to fuel delivery), and tail lights switched on (electrical), so I'd suspect there is some kind of electrical issue that affects the fuel gauge, possibly the fuel pump (running but not enough voltage), and the tail lights.

The last 2 at least are on the same part of the wiring harness at the back of the car - check for pinches in that part of the harness? Maybe some interior bits were removed and replaced, pinching some wires or rubbing through some insulation?

 

[Styria]

Hi Lukas, thanks for your reply. I am almost 100% certain that the problem is sourced to the application of the brake pedal. The car was stationary at the time, and the lights were not switched on. On reflection, possibly, this is a problem that first came to notice when I got the car. It stalled on me when stationary outside my home in a 24/7 bus lane, and it was totally flukey that it started then and I was able to move the car inside my driveway. Subsequent visits by a mechanic friend of mine, plus a mechanic, plus an Auto Electrician that hot wired the plug that is connected to the fuel pump relay, got the car going. That was about two months ago.

I now tend to think that this is an intermittent problem - here now, not now in ...whatever period of time, and those faults can be the most difficult to rectify. Still confused, bemused and befrazzled - wow ! Regards Styria

 

[abl567]

My first thought was a problem with the cruise control, as its operation is cancelled with the application of the brakes. While touching the brakes should only deactivate the cruise it would be something I'd try to eliminate just in case.

There, 1000 posts

 

[BenzBoy]

He's done it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eventually something had to drag him out of the cave.

 

[Styria]

My first thought was a problem with the cruise control, as its operation is cancelled with the application of the brakes. While touching the brakes should only deactivate the cruise it would be something I'd try to eliminate just in case.

There, 1000 posts[/QUOTE

Congratulations, you've done it....and whatsmore, it is just such a brilliantly informative post ! Now, getting back to tin tacks - I can't even drive the car because, even if I got it going, the first application of the brake pedal is going to shut down the engine. This is tricky - maybe the owner of the car may have some bright solution.....or our boy Helmet for that matter. (Hope you don't mind me putting the hardish word on you). Regards Styria

 

[Helmet]

I reckon you have a loose earth wire in the rear of the car. Has the car been in the panel shop recently?

 

[Helmet]

Or has the rear windscreen been removed ?

 

[Styria]

Thanks for coming in on this Helmet. Yes, the car has been in a Panel Shop having had a complete respray, but that was some twelve months ago, although the car has been unused for twelve months. From memory, it was driven from Prestons to Wentworthville, and there had not been any hint of any problems. It is only after it came into my care that these puzzling problems arose. Of course, this is the sort of thing that can happen and develop slowly - I am not sure if I am making myself clear.

It reminds me of when the Red Terror (Michel's 6.9) failed to start at one stage without warning. That turned out to be a faulty resistor. In closing, I think this is another Auto Electrician's puzzle to solve. Regards Styria

 

[Helmet]

Thanks for coming in on this Helmet. Yes, the car has been in a Panel Shop having had a complete respray, but that was some twelve months ago, although the car has been unused for twelve months. From memory, it was driven from Prestons to Wentworthville, and there had not been any hint of any problems. It is only after it came into my care that these puzzling problems arose. Of course, this is the sort of thing that can happen and develop slowly - I am not sure if I am making myself clear.

It reminds me of when the Red Terror (Michel's 6.9) failed to start at one stage without warning. That turned out to be a faulty resistor. In closing, I think this is another Auto Electrician's puzzle to solve. Regards Styria

Check the earth connection behind the rear seat, I'll bet it's loose.

 

[Styria]

Geez, you are a hard taskmaster - you really would like to see me suffer ! I'll see if I can muster enough energy to pull out that back seat. Regards Styria

 

[260ebenz]

Anthony congrats on the 1000 posts well done!!

Back to topic now sorry guys.

 

[260ebenz]

Geez, you are a hard taskmaster - you really would like to see me suffer ! I'll see if I can muster enough energy to pull out that back seat. Regards Styria

Styria bring the 450SEL to Hawks Nest if you need the extra muscles I will see if I can help you remove the backseat.

Removed the backseat out of my old W124, two orange buttons either side pushed them in hey presto seat came out.

I wonder if you would do the same procedure to remove the backseats in the 450SEL?

 

[Helmet]

Geez, you are a hard taskmaster - you really would like to see me suffer ! I'll see if I can muster enough energy to pull out that back seat. Regards Styria

Or you can pay me to come out and check it

 

[Helmet]

Styria bring the 450SEL to Hawks Nest if you need the extra muscles I will see if I can help you remove the backseat.

Removed the backseat out of my old W124, two orange buttons either side pushed them in hey presto seat came out.

I wonder if you would do the same procedure to remove the backseats in the 450SEL?

Similar, but I'm talking about the backrest Tim. Unbolt and push up.

 

[260ebenz]

Similar, but I'm talking about the backrest Tim. Unbolt and push up.

I stand corrected Peter.

 

[Styria]

Or you can pay me to come out and check it

Would the terms be favourable ? I mean what is there to a dollar between friends ? I do like your suggestion, but I would prefer if it was a social visit - you know, sitting there, musing, talking about nothing and just enjoying company. Regards Styria

BTW, I haven't forgotten about the pics that I took. I guess Rome wasn't built in a day. Please bear with me.