450SEL 6.9 for me? No.

More threads by Tony66_au

Tony66_au

New Member
Messages
2,306
Points
0
Location
Gippsland, Vic
I have come to the conclusion that an M100 Powered 450SEL is not for me.

They seem to have issues that well outnumber anything I have seen on their smaller capacity bretheren and structural quirks, They also seem to be worse kept than the standard 450's as well as being equipped with items that are becoming increasingly difficult to source.

And so my every busy mind turns to other things Mercedes such as a supercharged 4.5.

Anyone seen one Gents?
 

Oversize

Grand Master
Messages
5,753
Points
596
Location
Melbourne
Well I hope I didn't scare you off Tony! The ones I bought were very cheap and as a result they have all the problems you're ever likely to experience. Once up to a reliable standard (which will take me a while) they're bulletproof. It baffles many of us why many 6.9s have been treated so poorly. Good ones are out there, but don't expect to pay less than $10K. They're at least 32 years old now and I feel quite sure that an XD Falc, or VB Commodore treated with same amount of contempt would be far worse. I like the fact that the 6.9 is rare, fast, complex, unusual and different. I'm glad every man and his dog doesn't have one. The superior engineering becomes plainly obvious in the finer details, as things are disassembled for restoration. Most things just need new seals (or rubber), a good clean or some fresh paint. If I was content to have something that required no effort and was prepared to accept that many others would have the same as me, I'd just go out and buy and HSV/FPV. Anyone can do that if they beg, borrow, steal, or earn enough money. If not, sell things that don't matter, or simply get a loan.

I was thinking of you Tony when I posted the E-bay ad for the navy 6.9 in Sydney; I thought it'd be just perfect and at a resonable price. Yes it'll need a little work, but far less than fabricating a rusty Mini. And from what we've all seen, you're more capable than many of us to get the job done. If you can't do something I'm sure you have a friend that can.

I've seen a supercharged 280SE on Youtube.... A manual would be nice. Even a supercharged 280E (W123) would be a lot of fun. Stick to something pre 1976 and avoid EPA problems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knn39HflKtI&feature=related

Or get a wrecked 500SL/SEL and put that into a post '76 W116....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RIjzGz9D1o&NR=1

Whatever you choose Tony, you'll get plenty of support from all of us here. :)
 
OP
Tony66_au

Tony66_au

New Member
Messages
2,306
Points
0
Location
Gippsland, Vic
Ta Mark, No you didnt scare me off mate but you hit the nail on the head re lack of care.

I think that (And as you pointed out) there are too many flogged cars out there and with the 6.9's equipment level being as high as it is it would be a major Tishfight to get one to a reasonable standard.

Cracks and structural failures dont bother me anywhere near what broken HVAC and buggered Hydro suspension does and for this id have to do the hard yards myself.

And I was chatting to a good mate who did his time on 116's and 126's and he says he has a perfect supercharger recipe for M117's that will preserve and enhance both the torque and horsepower while placing little extra stress on the driveline so I will explore this option with Lili when the time comes.

Id love to own one and someday I may but for now the task is too daunting.
 

Styria

The Godfather
Moderator
Messages
9,382
Points
492
Location
Sydney
I just don't quite know what to say in response to Tony. For some time, I have been grappling with the idea of posting "do's and don't's" about purchasing 116s, and 6.9s in particular, but I have thus far been sidetracked by other issues, including of course, the servicing etc. of Gleaming Beauty and 'et al', whatever that infers.

We have seen countless neglected samples do their rounds on ebay, Car Sales etc., and one always has to ask themselves the simple questions - why ? Why have they been so neglected ? Is it the wrong type of owners that have been in possession of the cars ? Unfortunately, that in many cases seems to be the root of the problem. I stress that this is not a crusade against owners of certain origins, but some communities love powerful cars, they love wringing the last bit of usage out of them, they always have mates, or brothers, or mechanics, that "know" how to fix those cars, and fix them cheaply, they have trimmers that can fix upholstery, but in the end it all becomes too much. They let one thing go after another, and instead of having to fix one or two problems, they finish up with a myriad of them, and that's how we see some of those neglected cars hit the market.

When Tony speaks of 6.9s, and the many little things that can go wrong, he shouldn't forget that most problems are common to all models in the 116 range. If you take 450s, the interiors are almost identical with wear items on leather upholstery, although MB-Tex, as used on the lesser models, is far better lasting and can look almost as new even after thirty or thirty five years. Of course, if leather upholstery and its condition is of concern, you just don't buy a 6.9. However, leather if looked after, can be such a nice and desirable feature in any of our cars. Take my car, Gleaming Beauty, for instance. The upholstery is in quite exemplary condition, and why ? Because I have spent money on the backseat and squab to have new callico sewn in, all pleats resewed, and plenty of conditioner put on at regular intervals. So, it is a matter of maintenance, looking after things, renewing them, etc. etc. All those sentiments, of course, apply to 450s, 280s, 350s etc. etc.

Sure, 6.9s are more complex and more difficult to maintain than the other models in suspension matters. I guess we can point the blame on the manufacturer by selling suspension components at sky high prices, or they may no longer be available, but we need to bear in mind that 450s have part hydraulic suspension, we also need to allow for the fact that cars fitted with steel springs are far more difficult to work with, so all in all I don't think there is that much difference. Give a little, take a little.....if you know what I mean. I also contend that the under bonnet section of a 450 is not nearly as user friendly as a 6.9 - witness location of the water puimp, spark plug removal and some other items. I'll have a bit more to say about this subject in another post or thread. Regards Styria
 

Oversize

Grand Master
Messages
5,753
Points
596
Location
Melbourne
Well this subject's had me thinking most of the day. Yes there are some parts that are unavailable, but these can be substituted with parts from other manufacturers, or fabricated as a last resort. The vast number of parts are still available even though some are rather expensive. Name another manufacturer that can still supply parts for a 32+ year old car? If I waltzed into Ford and asked for parts for a XC, they'd be rolling around on the floor in fits of laughter....

Speaking of which, I made the comparison before of an XD, or VB Commodore. They'd just been released back in 1979 and weren't top-of the line anyway. So if we're comparing apples with apples, you'd have to be looking at the LTD and Caprice of 1975 (when the 6.9 was released). Mercedes made about 7380 6.9s and only a handful of those were imported into Australia (maybe 200?). Ford made 5896 P6 LTDs until 1979. Holden made ???? HX and HZ Caprices. My question is as a percentage of those built, how many survive today? I'd suggest the 6.9 would far out-number the competition.

The 6.9 was really a development of the Grosser, but without all the wood panelling! Maybe MB was trying to earn a few Deutsche Marks by simplifying things a little, in a contemporary design? Rather than lose money on every car they built, like they did with the Grosser... In comparison with the Grosser, the price of parts for a 6.9 are dirt cheap! Parts availability is much better and the 6.9 is far less complicated. Personally I think a 6.9 is a far better compromise and it has the handling and performance that compares favourably (if not better) than many cars today..... :D
 
Last edited:
OP
Tony66_au

Tony66_au

New Member
Messages
2,306
Points
0
Location
Gippsland, Vic
Its not so much the technical challenges as the initial state of the cars and as Styria pointed out so damned many have been driven into the ground and then left, id say often as a result of sticker shock.

That isnt to say that I will never own one, but when and if I do purchase one it will be for a fair chunk of cash and with thorough checks.

I did have a source for a few 6.9's but I suspect they were recently drowned and id honestly want to spend as little as possible buying a 6.9 of unknown provenance.

I have looked at 3 so far, the first one was not a 6.9 so I left.

The second unit was a seaside car in a light blue with roof racks and a sea kyack on the roof that blew smoke and had rust.

The third unit was a local ish car that had been well maintained until he gave it to his uni student son who flogged it for 4 years until it broke down and spent 4 weeks in a Uni car park before being rescued by his father who then expressed a desire to sell it to me (After seeing 4 Mercedes lined up on my lawn last car wash day) and produced 6 year old Photos which were far from the true state of the car on personal inspection and was quite miffed when I offered him $1000 (He said make me an offer).

I know the seaside car went to scrap because I rang back with a reduced offer, And the guy who owns the uni student car has the car part dismantled in his garage as his son wants to lower it, shave the doorhandles and paint it gloss black.

Meatheads is the most charitable term that springs to mind.
 

Oversize

Grand Master
Messages
5,753
Points
596
Location
Melbourne
I think the technological advancements and complexity of a 6.9 (and maybe the 6.3 as well) is their downfall. A new owner with a little knowledge buys one on the promise of large car performance. Only to discover that the maintenance and upkeep is well beyond the average mechanic. Things fail and are either patched up, or not repaired at all. After a while it all becomes too much and they get stored in less than ideal places. They know they have something special, but no idea what to do about it. Finally they relent and sell them to (hopefully) someone that knows more (or has the cash to do something about it)....
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
6.9forever Catalan 450SEL restoration that must be seen to believe! Mechanicals 1
zej Car (UK) September 1977 - 450SEL 6.9 vs Daimler Double-Six vs Silver Shadow II vs Cadillac Seville Road Tests 7
Oversize Differences between a 450SEL & 6.9 Mercedes W116 1
Oversize 450SEL Bash car for sale Motorsports 2
c107 450SEL 6.9 Motor mounts back Mercedes W116 5
6.9forever Icon Gold 450SEL in good condition Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 3
260ebenz 450SEL 6.9 will it start? Mercedes W116 4
4 1975 450SEL for sale $1000 Mercedes W116 7
260ebenz 450SEL 6.9 for sale Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 32
S What to do with a 450SEL Mercedes W116 3
Styria 1978 Mercedes 450SEL 6.9 Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 9
4 Petrol smell in cabin of 450SEL 4.5 L Mercedes W116 7
4 1975 450SEL for Sale in Sydney Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 6
4 450SEL Hood Pad replacement Exteriors and Body Repairs 23
4 450SEL suspension and injector parts Mercedes W116 18
260ebenz 450SEL 6.9 drive Mercedes W116 6
O A couple of 450SEL qns from a new guy Mercedes W116 15
260ebenz 450SEL for sale- bash rally car Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 4
Oversize My White 450SEL Parts Car Mercedes W116 11
Oversize Two Tone 450SEL Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 10
motec 6.9 Black Euro 450SEL Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 6
260ebenz 1974 450SEL 64,000 miles Mercedes W116 7
Styria $a100k - 450sel 6.9 Websites and Links 1
B 450SEL 6.9 for sale in South Australia Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 20
260ebenz 450SEL for sale Mercedes W116 1
Michel 450SEL For Sale (2nd Owner) Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 30
260ebenz Michel's 450SEL Mercedes W116 5
260ebenz 450SEL for sale Mercedes W116 5
260ebenz 450SEL 4.5 for sale Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 5
Styria 450SEL - Starting problems Mechanicals 16
Styria Mercedes 450SEL 6.9 Road Tests 0
motec 6.9 2xNice 450SEL on Carpoint Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 10
L Chopped 450SEL Mercedes W116 4
motec 6.9 nice looking 450sel for sale WA Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 8
Oversize Very nice 450SEL on Ebay Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 5
Oversize Is this the best (restored) 450SEL?? Mercedes W116 9
motec 6.9 Nice 450sel for Tony Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 2
WGB 450SEL - wakening after long sleep Exteriors and Body Repairs 20
4 Engine Gearbox transplant on 450sEL Mercedes W116 21
Oversize 450SEL with red interior for sale Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 1
300SDude 1975 - 1980 MERCEDES 450SEL 6.9 PARTS W116 280se AMG 450se Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 3
motec 6.9 Nice 450sel Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 2
Oversize 450SEL for sale Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 9
Oversize 450SEL sold for $1500 Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 0
260ebenz Impressive looking 450SEL for sale Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 3
Michel Another 450SEL... Work in Progress Mercedes W116 34
300SDude Craigslist 1975 Mercedes W116 450SEL - $3995 Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 6
300SDude '76 450sel $800 Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 0
motec 6.9 450sel 6.9 v s65 evo Road Tests 3
Oversize 450SEL for sale Gumtree/eBay/Facebook Listings 4

Similar threads

Top