9 speed Auto

[sean sherry]

The new 9 speed Automatic in the E Class boosts 5.4 L .P .H. Ks at the expense of a very complex Transmission.. I'd hate to be stuck with the Bill if a needle roller breaks up and turns the unit into a cement mixer.
Horrible enough in a simple 3 speed transmission. Nine speeds ups the anti on ZF's eight speed in the BMWs............

Hyundai have beaten all the others with the introduction of the first mass produced Hydrogen car with a 594 k range. A top speed of 160 KPH from100 K.W. Fuel Cell. London will be the first cab off the rank with a Hydrogen network of Filling Stations. It's Hyundai's third Generation Fuel Cell system.

The world moves on... too quickly for me..... still my Grandchildren keep me in touch with the current reality !............Sean

 

[sean sherry]

It seems that the 9 speed Auto is a ZF design

 

[SEL_69L]

We need engines that supply power and torque across a wide rev range.
Surely, a good engine management system could do this!
That would reduce the need for multiple gear ratios and their complexity.

 

[Styria]

The choice of nine ratios in a gearbox - are these obtained hydraulically, or by way of mechanical gears ? Obviously, if you take a manual box with whatever ratios available, you're dealing with hardware. Does anyone know the ins or outs of a five, six, seven, eight or nine speed auto box ? I have reason to believe that most of the modern autoboxes can set yopu back thousands IN EXCESS of ten thousand smackeroos. Anyone know more about this subject ? Regards Styria

 

[BenzBoy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tfiowxUTBs

 

[sean sherry]

Well Styria, after half a life time repairing and rebuilding Automatics, these multi geared Automatics do not impress me. I see only big $$$$ and a lot of agro.. I have had enough of that with our 2010 C Class 5 speed. Multiple soft ware issues and apparently the electronics continually drift out over time.
My next vehicle will be a European Manual 5 speed or a 30R Subaru Auto. I had a Subaru for 6 years and not a single issue with it. In 20 years running my Transmission Shop we rebuilt 4 Subaru's.
My House is built of Trimatics
( Holden ) BW"s ( Ford's Valiant's Most British ....inc. Jaguar ! )

Lower emission , Vis a V the high cost of manufacture and maintenance it seems

 

[Styria]

Sean, I guess with Governments looking for continually lower emissions, and the manufacturers looking for more power and increased liters per hundred, any measure that produces those results and objectives needs to be implemented.

It was at our meeting night at the Club recently, when we had a talk on the latest S-Class. Just imagine the astonishment when we were told that the turbo charged four (I think) litre Diesel achieves 3.2 liters per 100 ks. That, indeed, is a staggering figure from a car that must weigh nearly two tonnes, or thereabouts. The mind boggles. Regards Styria

BTW, what that car can't do is nobody's business - but at a price.

 

[Styria]

Sean, I guess with Governments looking for continually lower emissions, and the manufacturers looking for more power and increased liters per hundred, any measure that produces those results and objectives needs to be implemented.

It was at our meeting night at the Club recently, when we had a talk on the latest S-Class. Just imagine the astonishment when we were told that the turbo charged four (I think) litre Diesel achieves 3.2 liters per 100 ks. That, indeed, is a staggering figure from a car that must weigh nearly two tonnes, or thereabouts. The mind boggles. Regards Styria

BTW, what that car can't do is nobody's business - but at a price.

http://www.topklasse.org/forums/showthread.php?p=48115#post48115

 

[sean sherry]

Yes Styria, I understand all of that, but I can't help wondering if the cure is worse than the disease. A couple of years ago I went to Trade Night at Toyota's Training Centre here in Sydney and was taken aback by the complexity of their ungraded,, duel powered , Hybrid. All run by multiple Computers and requiring Dealer level diagnosis's. The resale value drops like a stone as the Battery life nears the end. What will a 9 speed Mercedes be worth after say 5/6 years as the mileage climbs ? I also wonder about the energy required to manufacture all this complexity with limiter life cycles. Keeps the economy expanding , but it can't go on indefinably . But maybe the wheel will turn a full circle when our Grandchildren take over.

..... Sean
.

 

[sean sherry]

Executive Decision.......... I have decided not to change our C Class for the new Model ( usually every 4 years in the past ) but spend a few dollars on a professional detail and refurbish the Alloys ( her parking by ear ).
Our 2010 Turbo Model was the last with the 5 speed Autos and with all their problems sorted. Yes, the 5 speeds had their moments ! Mercedes Work Shop Manager advised that the Electronics may get a little confused at times when shifting, I don't have a problem with that. Also the engine and Transmission setting tend to drift over time and it's a simple matter to reset the electronics at service time. The Ride , Handling and Performance of this C200 Turbo can't be bettered in it's class. Being the last model of the current life cycle it should go the distance without my hand in my pocket too much.
...Sean

 

[Michel]

Executive Decision.......... I have decided not to change our C Class for the new Model ( usually every 4 years in the past ) but spend a few dollars on a professional detail and refurbish the Alloys ( her parking by ear ).
The Ride , Handling and Performance of this C200 Turbo can't be bettered in it's class. Being the last model of the current life cycle it should go the distance without my hand in my pocket too much.
...Sean

If you normally change cars every four years, then you ought not to have any worries about major maintenance as the new Benzes are so much more superior than the preceding ones, both in terms of technology and fuel economy.
If you have the current C Class then you are already ahead.
They are simply fabulous and are selling like hot cakes, not to mention also causing a huge headache to BMW, who has claimed that market segment for years.

 

[sean sherry]

Well ,you are right Michel, each new Model is an improvement on the last........
But I always found that it pays to wait a couple of years till all the bugs are ironed out. Out 2002 or was it 03 C Class was a nightmare, the later Compressor Model was trouble free. Luck of the draw I suppose..... Sean

 

[Styria]

......interesting thread !.......and the Volkswagen wins out in the end. Still happy to have made the switch to V-Dub ? Regards Styria

N.B. As a matter of interest, why:

1) Are nine speeds better than seven speed ?
2) Why would nine speeds be better than seven ?
3) Sould 7 speed be better than four, or five ?

We had a four speeder in the Stateman - seemed to work fine. I have a three speeder in Gleaming Beauty - apart from an absurdly high first gear (only from stand-still), once on the move, any gears more than three in total would be surplus.

 

[SEL_69L]

It doesn't matter if we like it or not, there is an accelerating trend to build 7 or more speeds into auto transmissions, by ALL automotive manufacturers.

Sean: in terms of servicing and / or repair, I think you have discovered the reason why the automotive manufacturers do this: the transmissions require downloadable software from the manufacturer, available ONLY to recognised service agents, to do any work required.

It is intended to put independent servicing businesses out of business.

 

[BenzBoy]

I do admit the 7 speed auto on the CLK350 is a vast improvement over the 5 speed auto in the ML320. The 7 speed is never caught in the wrong gear and the flow of power is always smooth - and instant. Having said that, there is little wrong with the 5 speed but I would much prefer the 7 speed for driveability.
Independents are able to download the appropriate software - although it is a few months after it is first released by the factory.
Now - here is the crunch. What would it cost to overhaul a 7 speed? I am sure it would be uber-expensive so have taken the precaution of having factory services on the 7 speed at the recommended intervals - and a factory service involves completely evacuating the transmission oil - not just a drain and fill.
As for the W116; I always thought it a weak point in the design to limit it to 3 speeds - a 4th speed or overdrive would have enabled cruising at much lower revs.
Regards,
Brian

 

[sean sherry]

You are on the ball with a complete oil drain Brian. Many years ago manufactures stoped putting drain plugs in torque convertors, .The only way to drain them was to drill a hole and weld it up again if that was what a customer wanted. Even loosening the valve body to overcome the convertor drain back valve only allowed the top half to drain. Mercedes must have seen the errors of there ways and fitted drain plugs ???????

P.S. even the oil pan drain plugs went the same way... The oil had to be sucked out..... well most of it.

Sean

 

[Styria]

Sean, I had never come across a converter with a drain plug until the advent of the 6.9. I suspect that the 450 has it as well, but never having owned a 450 as an everyday car, and not carrying out any maintenance, I am not sure about a drain plug arrangement.

I have always felt that it was essential to drain the oil from the converter, and that's always been carried out on Gleaming Beauty. Additionally, it's not a bad idea to remove the valve body, wash it out in petrol, blow dry and refit. The job's a little awkward 'on the ground', but it can be done. You just spend so much more time on a major box service such as this. Additionally, the reverse band (No.3) can also be adjusted at the same time, but it is not easy to get to. Regards Styria