70's benzes and rust issues

[s class]

I continue to be shocked at the extent and location of rust most members seem to experience with W116's.

I live in the greater Johannesburg area about 750km from the nearest coastline. Rust basically doesnt exist here.

One can leave naked steel out in the garden, and so long as there is no rain, after weeks no surface rust will have developed.

It really is a classic car lover's perfect climate. In fact, if it were not for this, I would not be able to keep up a fleet the size of mine. Perhaps just as well that the fleet is being halved as I contemplate relocating to the greater Syndey area.

 

[116Benz]

So you and your family are joining us over here? Excellent! And no I'm not surprised regarding rust, I did hear that there was a strike in Germany in the 70's and alot of erm...whats a good description, lesser quality? Steel was used.

 

[BenzBoy]

I continue to be shocked at the extent and location of rust most members seem to experience with W116's.

I live in the greater Johannesburg area about 750km from the nearest coastline. Rust basically doesnt exist here.

One can leave naked steel out in the garden, and so long as there is no rain, after weeks no surface rust will have developed.

It really is a classic car lover's perfect climate. In fact, if it were not for this, I would not be able to keep up a fleet the size of mine. Perhaps just as well that the fleet is being halved as I contemplate relocating to the greater Syndey area.

I have to admit too at being surprised at the amount of rust people report. My 450SE had lived the first 20 years of life in the country and had no rust when I bought it and then lived in a garage so none developed (apart from a small line around the lip where the boot seal sits - and I had that fixed). With its new owner it lives many miles from the sea and in a garage again so I expect it may well last for another 30 years before work needs ot be done on the body.
As we have said before - you are welcome in Australia - as are all your cars.
Regards,
BenzBoy

 

[Michel]

Perhaps just as well that the fleet is being halved as I contemplate relocating to the greater Syndey area.

Have you decided which part of your fleet you will bring with you?

 

[Styria]

In my opinion, garaging facilities during a car's life are of the utmost importance as far as rust issues are concerned. I think where problems start is when windscreens are not replaced properly, allowing ingress of water to the interior of the car and also the wheel well areas.

As I have said previously, once you have water in the sound proofing felt in the front compartments, it will just about never dry out. So, those are the first areas to suffer.

You then need to look inside the engine bay and the sound proofing located on the firewall. I guess it then becomes a matter of time when rust will start in the corners - see pics of Mercules' 450 SEL. Again, keeping a car garaged regularly will slow dow down the rusting process. Also, let's not forget that 116's are not the only Mercedes model to be thus affected - plenty of 108/9's and 107's are similarly affected, especially the later. So, ask yourself, what other reasons could there be ?

I have been involved with P5 (1959-1973) and P6 (1963-1976) Rovers for many years, and I can state quite categorically that all later models that were under the manufacturing control of British Leyland are far more susceptible to rust than models prior to 1970 when the Rover Company was in control. I used to collect P6's for a number of years and they would just be sitting in paddocks out in the open. You could always tell by the amount of rust, or lack thereof, which was a Leyland and which was a Rover sourced car. I know for a fact that gauge thickness of metal on the Leyland Rovers was far thinner and I used to observe that front suspension pick-up points invariably were shimmed to allow more precise geometry of the suspension settings. Early P6's were never fitted with those spacers.

So maybe, one may question the quality of steel etc. that may even have been used by MB in the 60's and 70's. Some design features may also have left a little to be desired, but I do think a lot of the problems can be traced to lack of garaging facilities. Regards Styria

 

[BenzBoy]

Inferior steel often gets the blame but remember that in the 1970s the first oil crisis was starting to bite - from about 1970 onwards prices started to rise - and manufactureres began to look at ways to lighten bodies. Remember the Ralph Nader crusades in the States? I suspect that if the steel was thinner (and I would want to see measurements to know for sure) then it may have been a response to the works of Nader and Erlichman. For many years I had a 1964 Fiat 2300 Lusso and the steel on that was THICK and every surface and cavity was covered with wax during manufacturing - and yet Fiat had a reputation for rusting by 1970.....
Regards,
BenzBoy

 

[John S]

Unfortunately some of the steel used in Italian cars of that period came from Russia via a barter payment system, and the steel had impurities which caused rust via electrolysis (dissimilar metal problem, even though the impurities are almost ionic in size!)

 

[BenzBoy]

Unfortunately some of the steel used in Italian cars of that period came from Russia via a barter payment system, and the steel had impurities which caused rust via electrolysis (dissimilar metal problem, even though the impurities are almost ionic in size!)

JohnS - I have also heard that many times but is there any data to support it? I have often wondered if it is an urban myth or true and have never been able to find any concrete evidence (rust aside) for that being the case. I do know that one of the causes of rust in some Italian cars in the 70s was thast unpainted bodies were stored outside the factory for some time before being painted/trimmed and fited with engines. I have seen photos of yards of bodies totally unprotected.
Remember the rsut of the Holdens in the 70s? Mud would collect in pockets under the wheel wells and sit there until it came out as rust...
Regards,
BenzBoy

 

[TJ 450]

I believe it may have some relation to the percentage of carbon in the steel. More carbon = stronger steel, but it will be more susceptible to rust. In the 1960's and 70's, strength was prioritised for safety, but rust proofing techniques had not been fully realised. The basic design of the car bodywork seems to allow water to collect in certain areas as well, which one needs to be aware of.

Tim

 

[s class]

Michel,

The basic plan is to bring 3 cars :

a) trusty rusty
b) the AMG
c) either the W140 or the 280SE

Counting for the W140 are its perfect black leather interior (my favourite) and the SEL body. Counting heavily against it are 315 000km, impending engine overhaul and impending tranny overhaul.

It does not make economic sense to spend $2000 to bring my 280SE which is worth $2000 or less, but I'm rather fond of it.

 

[Michel]

Michel,
The basic plan is to bring 3 cars :
a) trusty rusty
b) the AMG
c) either the W140 or the 280SE
Counting for the W140 are its perfect black leather interior (my favourite) and the SEL body. Counting heavily against it are 315 000km, impending engine overhaul and impending tranny overhaul.
It does not make economic sense to spend $2000 to bring my 280SE which is worth $2000 or less, but I'm rather fond of it.

I agree on 2 of your choices and understand the affection towards the 280SE, but what about the SL?
It would be the one worth spending the shipping money on.

 

[s class]

Michel, the SL is currently for sale. Very simply, I need the funds it will raise. I will not exactly miss it either, as my period of ownership of it has convinced me that I MUCH prefer big sedans. I've only driven the SL about 20 times in 3 years and every time its more of a chore than a pleasure. If I want class and comfort, I drive a W116, if I want performance I drive the W140. The SL offers me nothing. Sorry.

 

[B13]

280SE.... unless there is some incredible sentimental attachment or its just plain the best one in RSA, I think you'll find you can find one just as good in Sydney pretty quickly after you arrive... remembering you'll need some wheels to get around in while your other 3 machines arrive via slow-boat, that would be the way I would proceed.

Also replacing a W140 here is much more expensive exercise than replacing a W116 280SE, which can be done with pocket change practically...

 

[116Benz]

I'd agree with the SL comment. after 3 mths I happily traded mine on an MX-5, havent looked back since. Wouldnt mind an R129 though even though someone (no names named) rekons it looks like a shoe

 

[s class]

B13, I know that repacing the W140 will be expensive - mine will only sell for $10 000 or less here. But it is worn and needs a LOT of money poured into it.

Indeed, the sentimental attachement to the 280SE is really that great. It has nothing to do with numbers and costs.

 

[Martin280s]

I'd agree with the SL comment. after 3 mths I happily traded mine on an MX-5, havent looked back since. Wouldnt mind an R129 though even though someone (no names named) rekons it looks like a shoe

A devilish sling back I hasten to add! Very Manolo Blahnik!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manolo_blahnik

 

[116Benz]

Very devilish. I wonder does Blahnik do Wellingtons?

 

[Styria]

Hi 116Benz, interesting comments regarding the SL and your MX5. How would you rate the two, and in what areas ? I know we are talking totally different motor cars, one's a buzz boz, as well as noisy and frightful suspension, (just to get you to 'open up' ) and the other is a 'cruiser' - so what was it that you didn't like ?

Bear in mind that Parks has just carried out a lot of work on two MX5's - leather seats, dynamat soundproofing, carpets and new soft top for one, and swap of seats and soft top on the other, so we have a little bit of an idea what sort of car they are. Love to get your version ! Regards Styria

 

[116Benz]

Theres a few similarities between the 2 Styria, both were manual, both RWD & soft roof. Before I bought mine I drove a 350SL, a 450SL & 380SL. What I bought was a 280SL manual, the manual box wasnt that great being a long throw, the handling was savage, the seats were uncomfortable and the hard top was a pain to remove. Then...there was the rust. The more I tried to fix it, the worse it got. The MX-5 was a car that I had wanted since they came out, I can still clearly remember the 1st time I laid eyes on one, back in 89. The (then) local Mazda dealer now works in our real estate office, so theres lots of talk about anything car related. The beauty of the MX-5 is that its so simple. It's light, handles well, gets an oil chane every 10,000 km's and runs on the sniff of a rag, being 6'3 I just fit in the car too. The only problem I have is that eventually I'll have to replace the fabric on the seats...do I go dead cow or stick to the original pattern.

 

[Parks]

116benz, this might entice you new leather on the right and on the left the original seat