Classic value - the W116

[6.9forever]

It's fair to say that TK members love and value their cars disproportionately compared to what they presently might realise in terms of dollar value.

I'd contend it's time to 'talk up' the value of our cars, consistent with reason.

It doesn't help when we are overly critical about the condition or asking price of a car that we spot ... "Tell 'im he' s dreaming!"

Such negative vibes only add to a continuation of depressed values, I'd contend.

Some rare W109s and the W100 eg. the 3.5 cabriolet and 600 are now six figures. The 6.3 could be next, then surviving original unmolested 6.9s within maybe decade or two.

Let's talk them up, again, within reason. Repair and maintenance costs are still reasonable as mechanically they are not too sophisticated - 600 hydraulics excepted - and almost all parts available.

Here's to the day when 6.9 is as coveted as a 113 SL!

 

[motec 6.9]

I have been saying it for years when I post 6.9 for sale. Then someone post that trim is not right or door card has failed. Unless car is complete rubbish and no more than parts car. Those comments are counter productive. I would like good 6.9 to start at 50k as that justifies maintenance. And hope they will get there in next 10 years. And saying you are reporting issues in objective view if you cant be positive about it maybe you should not post. As David said it hurts our investment with public perception. 6.9 are expensive and difficult to maintain. No they are easy and cheap compared to newer Mercedes. I will try to follow my advise maybe others should to.

 

[abl567]

3.5 Cab is a W111

 

[Afro107]

If TK was an international and Aus authority on W116 or classic mercedeses to be reckoned with, perhaps the comments in "tell him he's dreaming" would bear much more weight than petty chat.

There are so many classic owners that never heard of any Aus or US forums (as most common for english speaking) and similarly uninformed buyers are probably much more than that.

People that are genuinely interested in classic cars will have their own specific desires and expectation with their specific budgets and it is a whole different perspective to own a classic and to look further when compared to FCB (first classic buyer).
I bough my 450SLC irrespective that i was "advised" that it is not a "cabriolet", 500 was a better engine and that 500SLC would be the way to go. I wanted this particular car, never looked back.
When you see a car you like, you give no #### about anything else because this what counts the most.

Actually, talk like that in perceived dreaded "tell him he's dreaming" are rather helpful when dealing with deceptive sellers which I find to be the majority, either by choice or by lack of true knowledge. A similar topic on BMW helped me steer away from a fake M5 E28. The car was good and it replicates M5 to a great detail but it was a replica. I would have still end up paying bottom $ for what this car was, but it was none of my interest and it would have been a waste of time and energy. I wanted true M5 E28, not a replica.

SO... pep talk in forums, IMO, have no true bearing on selling prices in either direction.
Compare it to houses in Sydney. Everyone knows the prices are ridiculous (criticising living value for money is an easy task) but the demand is greater then ever. I noticed that now $15k can get you much more of a R107 for the money then few years ago and none of these cars were scrutinised here.

 

[6.9forever]

Oops yes of course 3.5 cabriolet is a W111. Thanks for correction Anthony.

While on this matter of correct chassis naming, all references to W107 should be changed to R or C107 (SL and SLC) while all SELs are V116.

 

[Styria]

In relation to Afro 107 - he has made it quite clear that despite the "helpful advice and opinions extended", he still chose to purchase his 450SLC. Right or wrong, regarding the advice given, it does not mean that the advice was incorrect. He could well have bought a better car, one more desirable, one better credentialed from a number of aspects, and that advice extended to him must have had some merit. Whoever advised, should they have just said nothing ? No opinions expressed ? Surely, that is not appropriate either.

Regarding David's comments (6.9 forever), I understand what you're saying David. There is probably nothing worse than an owner being informed that his car has got problems from one end to the other, as it is so easy to offend. However, most of the time, we are discussing cars for sale, and they present themselves for scrutiny, hopefully attracting a fair and reasonable point of view. Take the SL advertised in the States with the 6.9 engine. How would you handle the description of that car - praise it, recommend it, or we don't express an opinion ? If the last named was taken as a criteria, there would be no point in bringing it to the attention in our forum, and really the purpose of the forum would be lost. I have been involved with all manner of cars, including Mercedes Benzes as in Ch. 108/109/116 models, I have restored them, thus I know what not only what I am looking for, but also what prospective and current owners would like their cars to be......and it is fair that attention is drawn to a car's shortcomings so that a prospective owner understands the commitment involved.

If your backseat has collapsed, that requires remedy. If the rear parcel shelf has turned to dust, it will need replacement if you want a nice car. If the carpet is stained, and as hard as a rock as they tend to be after thirty of forty years, it will require replacement - if you want a nice car. Again, nothing wrong with pointing all that out. Anyway, that's enough out of me. Regards Styria

N.B. Well, I have just realized I haven't said enough. BTW David, I am not picking on you, nor am I rubbishing your opinions in any way. I am sort of tidying up the garage, thinking, musing......you know, the things that geriatrics are good at. David, recall the time of some six to seven years ago, and you rang me for my opinion as you had your heart set on buying this (dilapidated) 6.9 in Leichhardt and I managed to convince you not to buy, and you then finished up purchasing the "best 6.9 for sale in Australia" ? Surely, some credit must be extended to open up discussions on cars for sale. Just think if you had bought that car !

 

[abl567]

David, are they not variants of the chassis designation? My 420SEL chassis number is WDB126, not VDB126, SL's and SLC's are chassis number WDB107.
I'll take my Pendant hat off soon

 

[Styria]

I have been saying it for years when I post 6.9 for sale. Then someone post that trim is not right or door card has failed. Unless car is complete rubbish and no more than parts car. Those comments are counter productive. I would like good 6.9 to start at 50k as that justifies maintenance. And hope they will get there in next 10 years. And saying you are reporting issues in objective view if you cant be positive about it maybe you should not post. As David said it hurts our investment with public perception. 6.9 are expensive and difficult to maintain. No they are easy and cheap compared to newer Mercedes. I will try to follow my advise maybe others should to.

Geoff, one can't really compare an "old" Mercedes with a newer version starting form, say, 2000 onwards. Entirely different cars and yes, 6.9 parts, as 6.3, 450, 350, whether SL, SLC, SE, SEL can all be expensive. That's part of the reason why older Benzes have poor resale value. Regards Styria

 

[motec 6.9]

That's just the point they share same market realestate. A W220 is now about the same price as a nice 6.9 . And on that point every part off 6.9 ownership is cheaper other than fuel usage. If you don't believe me start pricing parts or for a W140 . They make 6.9 parts seem very affordable. 5k to 20k can get you a just over 5 year old Mercedes.

 

[Michel]

Gentlemen (I don't recall this forum having any members of the opposite sex):

The rule of the buying-selling game is simple.
A car is only worth as much as someone is prepared to spend on buying it.

We can talk up value as much as we want...
However, you can have a 'rare' 6.9 or 6.3, that has cost you an arm and a leg to keep in near mint condition, but when comes the time to dispose of it, you will only get what the market can sustain.

For example, I can vouch that some of us on this esteemed forum have spent tens of thousands of dollars in the upkeep (and I do not consider major modifications as upkeep) of their beloved vehicles only to find that when push comes to shove (selling day) they can only dream of regaining 50 if not 40 or maybe 30 per cent of their investment.

I say it again, Market Dictates....

Look at what happened a few years ago, when Aussie muscle cars where the flavour of the month... where Ford XY GTHOs were bringing close to a million dollars... and others (Monaros, Toranas and Chargers) were nudging the half million dollar mark!

What do you call that? An overheated market?

Call it what you want, but it is a case of what the market absorbs and will accept.
Supply and demand has always been the number one rule of any form of trading.
Sellers are out there asking $15-$20K for a rough HQ Monaro body and getting it, yet we gasp when someone asks $15-20K for a well kept W116 450SEL 6.9

As my American friends would say: Go figure!

 

[Styria]

Michel, cast your mind back to when you were contemplating the purchase of a 6.9, or several so to speak of a few years back......what was my advice to you at the time ? Regards Styria

N.B. Also, you had your heart set on a particular unusually coloured 6.9 and you just missed out ? Aren't you glad you did not get that car ? So, one never knows, and critical and sound advice can in fact be just that - sound advice.

 

[motec 6.9]

I will pay higher price to get an above average condition car. When I am in the market. I bought my 6.9 cheap knowing it required work but the important thing was it is rust free and the fundamentals were sound. That is my first priority mechanicals are cheaper than a rusted body.

 

[Styria]

I will pay higher price to get an above average condition car. When I am in the market. I bought my 6.9 cheap knowing it required work but the important thing was it is rust free and the fundamentals were sound. That is my first priority mechanicals are cheaper than a rusted body.

..........not always ! Regards Styria

 

[Styria]

There are at leat three areas to consider when buying a R107, W116 and even a Ch. 108/109 - The mechanical condition, the exterior and body as well as the interior. One can spend many thousands on any of those items, so one needs to make sure that you can get as best as possible in any area.

Just keep in mind, that any interior that's thirty years of age or more will need work and replacement. Genuine and original is not always the best, and one will need to spend dollars if you want a really good car that you can be proud of and will give you pleasure in owning it.

From a mechanical point of view, it is great to have receipts for work performed in the past. Just bear in mind that any repair older than six years is of little value - that's if the car is used.

Body and rust wise - you know the drill - no matter how straight, no matter how little rust - if the paint is "OFF", the car is of little value to anyone other than yourself, as long as it performs reliably. Witness my dead set reliable 420SEL. Regards Styria

 

[motec 6.9]

Post edited as requested.

 

[sean sherry]

Sale value .appearance is the key...,Selling a Saab with a couple of small dents on a door.. , as is, or fix ? Neighbour a Car Whole Seller... fix the small dents and take the engine out and I will sell it !

Did the SL at Shannon's sell on appearance? I don't understand the price paid .. Simular, good clean , early eighties , 380 SL usually sells in the mid to upper twenties.

Appearance Value ? ... think of the cost of a Trophy Wife...

 

[Oversize]

There's a lot of factors that affect market value & I blame MB herself for many. Strangely MB always took pride in secondhand values but in the last 15 years or so this has plummeted significantly along with the value of all used cars.
But specifically MB has severely restricted info access so the masses have no idea how to work on them. So many people stick with what they know; simple machinery aka Fords & Holdens. Combine that with the high cost of parts & specialist labor plus the almost non-existent aftermarket support network and values will stay low into the foreseeable future

 

[Oversize]

Here’s an article on classic car values from last year which includes various Mercedes models and even mentions the unexpected auction result of a 6.9...

https://thewest.com.au/business/you...is-you-clanger-worth-a-mint-ng-b88597270z.amp

 

[Oversize]

I think the market is driven by desirability. If it’s desirable, people will want it no matter of negative advice given. If I want it, I’ll have it no matter what someone says! Value is entirely in the eyes of the beholder.

I’ve found advice is often based on completely different benchmarks, so it can sometimes be worthless. A pre-purchase inspection will NEVER be a substitute for seeing it for yourself. Ignore that at your own peril. Financially it’s best to buy and sell when it’s not necessary, but life doesn’t work that way.

So what makes something desirable? Why will people pay so much for just a body shell? Too many factors to mention and it’s often down to the individual who has their own criteria. But reputation is everything and knowledge is vital. If people are unfamiliar and think something is complex, expensive and has little support when things go wrong, they won’t be drawn to the product. So that’s why we’re here to dispel some of the myths and spread the good word!! It’s up to us to educate people so they can tell the difference between a 280 and a 560.... But enthusiasts and collectors do their own research and know what they want. TK forms a part of that knowledge base.

I just wish MBA would celebrate their history as much as the mother land and back it up with competitive part prices and less NLA. They should get their act together and reintroduce parts for the most collectible models and stop charging a premium for us downunder.

 

[Oversize]

Whoops!