Warped brake discs?

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Styria

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The Statesman I bought has a warped rotor on the left hand side. My understanding now is that GMH disc rotors are virtually made of 'cardboard' and you've only got to look at them 'sideways' and they will warp.

Eventually, I'll get down to the 'nitty gritty' myself and I am looking at various options at the moment. Will keep everyone posted. Just let me tell you that it is an unpleasant experience to go downhill and have the steering wheel vibrate on light application of the brake. I believe it affects the rears as well - not on my car, but that's what I have been told. Regards Styria
 
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John S

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On an earlier series Commodore I had the discs replaced 3 times under warranty, but never had problems with warped discs on any of the models after that. Hopefully your warped disc will be a 1 off situation.
 
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BAR

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There is much to suggest that the discs will warp, one day: basically an inevitability.

We have here cars which weigh around 2 tonnes, have relatively small surfaces [fitting under the rim of 14' wheels], controlled by automatic gearboxes.

Thus any stopping generates heat: being an automatic, one remains at rest with one's foot on the brake, so any heat is soaked into the pads. That area covered by the pads stays hotter, longer than the rest of the disc. Ignoring the extra cooling provided on a rainy day or wet road, this formula will cause exaggerated wear - and warp.

Were this a manual car, one could use the gears more to assist in braking and also use the handbrake to hold the car at rest, providing welcome relief to the rotors.

One could minimise wear and warp, how: fit larger wheels to aid cooling, fit larger rotors and pads to improve brake swept area [and the attendant benefits], and for the drastic step - covert to a manual gearbox. SO in short, moderate one's use of brakes, drive with more attention to what is happening 500 metres ahead and use the brakes less. then and when it is required, fit a new set of rotors - they're not that expensive.
 

BenzBoy

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One of the question raised by the article John posted is whether rotors actually run out of true because they warp or because they have deposits from the pads. Anyone care to comment on that?
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BenzBoy
 

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Some months ago I had 'warped disk' symptoms from the rear of my 280SE. I replaced the disks with new, and all seemed well - but almost immediately afterwards the symptoms returned. I intend to examine things with a dial guage this weekend. Its very annoying.
 

Styria

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I am just not used to have warped disc problems - even some of the Benz after market items have now lasted about five years and are still serviceable.

New GMH discs for the Statesman work out to about $180.00 each retail, after market somewhat less. I can also buy treated and slotted (properly) items for round about the same price, so they are getting up in cost a bit.

Something I will attend to soon - Damo, BTW, one of our members, reckons that Commodore discs will warp on a hot day just driving along the Freeway and NOT using the brakes. If true, that's not a good story. Regards Styria
 

BenzBoy

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The article John posted has an excellent coverage of a number of braking issues - but how many people have yet read it right through to the end? As John commented, the picture in figure 4 makes an interesting point. So, do brake rotors actually warp? Maybe they don't warp at all....
Regards,
BenzBoy
 
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GreaseMonkey

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I was working for Midas in the UK in the eighties, responsible for training all branch staff in brake servicing, and consequently I had excellent technical support and ongoing training myself from the major suppliers in Britain at the time; Girling, Mintex, Lockheed, AP etc.
Much of what is written in that post is true to high temperature racing applications and should not really be a worry to normal road use, but, given the higher ambient temperatures in Australia (less cooling effect) and, as mentioned above, the heavy modern automatics favoured here; Commodores, Falcons etc, the symptoms can be relevant.
The later paragraphs, regarding brake fluid, are straightforward and have been discussed previously on this (or another?) forum, particularly I remember making the point that you NEVER should top-up brake fluid and the reasons why.
The deposits shown in Figure 4 ae quite common, and as the author states not always easy to see, but usually if you have the rotor off the car, by tilting it against the light you will see this effect.
Unfortunatley the policy at Midas back then, and probably similar today in our local K-Mart type service shops, was to resurface, or 'skim' the discs (rotors) at every pad change. This makes for a better pedal feel, and is obviously more efficient from the first application of the pedal, rather than waiting for new pads to wear in to the worn surface, but the real motive was it is all profit.
The lathe is already there, and a good operator will have one rotor being machined in the five minutes it takes to remove the other, so a set of pads at say $100 retail ($40 trade) can be sold as a $200 job.
The problem is that eventually the rotor gets too thin, and can no longer dissipate heat as well, and it will definitely then either warp or crack, and I have seen both even if the author above has not.
That is why a rotor often has a number stamped on the edge meaning the minimum thickness below which, scrap it.
Another common cause of 'warped disc syndrome' is a less than 100% clean mating face between the rotor and the hub, a ten micron piece of grit here could mean a hundred or more micron run-out at the edge of the disc.
Although the symptoms listed above do seem common here on the Falcon/Commodore type large sedans, (and a complete disaster on late model Falcon One-Ton Utes) I have never had any problems with pads and rotors on any of my Mercedes, all automatics, all (except the 190E) quite heavy, all driven quite hard, and never had any fluid problems apart from once boiling away my pedal completely in the 280E coming down MacQuarie Pass, my excuse then was I had only just bought the car, no excuse really, ALWAYS flush brake fluid through if you have no proof it has been done recently.
A final note, although we like to keep our alloys clean, I advise against using those dust protector discs that fit between the wheel and the brake as they severely cut down airflow to the rotor.
This kind of info is not only useful, but essential to us all, and joking apart, is what makes forums like this worthwhile.
Chris M.
 
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GreaseMonkey

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What are you doing answering now BenzBoy?
You were supposed to be tearing around Oran Park, put the laptop away and get your R-R in gear!
C.M.
 

BenzBoy

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Unfortunately the gods were against me....
As much as I wanted to go I had to make the decision not to for two reasons;
1. Low risk but high impact - with no possible way of getting insurance meant that I was not too keen to risk $100,000 for the sake of some fun. Oh yeah, I know, I know.....while I could have taken the PII, I doubt that I could successfully steer it through the bends until we have the scrub radius issue sorted and that means more testing with alternative wheels that have slightly different offsets.
2. There is a certain car auction I need to attend today. Yeah, again, I know, I know....
Regards,
BenzBoy
 
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GreaseMonkey

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Is it that Facel Vega you mentioned?
Go for it, go go go!
I used to love going to the auctions, still have a lot of old catalogues, to browse and kick myself, " I should have got that" etc, and I suspect in today's market there will be bargains to be had.
Let us know what you find, and what sells.
Good luck,
C.M.
 

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