Ford vs Holden

[Oversize]

You all knew it was coming!!! I've always been a Ford man, but they get me sooo frustrated!!! Maybe it's the Aussie in me that roots for the underdog?? Here's why they drive me nuts (but I still won't be tempted by the dark side):

Ford persisted with the leaf spring on sedans until XE (Holden ditched them on HQ),
Ford ditched the V8 in 1982 (WTF!), only to bring it back for EB,
They ditched the "We're moving with you" campaign,
No GTHO,
They always seem to be down on power compaired to GMH (since EB?),
Brakes are rubbish,
Suspensions too soft,
Seating position is too high,
They often seem to be following GMH when introducing new technology,
The new utes, Fairlanes, LTDs and wagons were compromised (cost cut) designs and as a result their body lines don't flow smoothly,
Some of their styling (and wheels) have left a lot to be desired,
Falc rear doors don't open enough (AU),
Falc rear door line too straight (FG),
Poor paint finish under the bonnet (AU),
No paint on the engine block (AU),
Control blade too heavy (AU),
Ford Australia haven't really attempted to tap the global market and as a result, a new Falc may not be viable!!

In saying all that though, I think the VE is rubbish and there's not enough space here to list all the abominations (and not enough space to list all the good stuff about Ford)!! Yeah ok, I'll concede GMH V8s have plenty of go and the utes look awesome!

 

[Michel]

Here's your answer:

When the VE Commodore was designed, it was benchmarked against the BMW 5-series and beat it in every aspect.
It is a far superior vehicle to the current (or any previous) Ford designed or sold in this country.

I have tested the current Commodore and the equivalent Falcon (as a motoring journalist) and there is simply is NO comparison.

The Holden outperforms the Ford in EVERY aspect, especially handling and performance.

If it wasn't for the die-hard and fanatic followers (as well as the poor cabbies) Ford would have closed a longtime ago.

On another note, at the track, Ford's performance has been dismal.

Sorry, but you better open the shades so you can see the light!

 

[abl567]

mmmmm, looking around me everywhere I go just trying to find the person who actually gives a shyte

 

[BenzBoy]

mmmmmm, I was rather taken by that Kia I saw in your driveway Ant....
Regards,
Brian

 

[abl567]

mmmmmm, I was rather taken by that Kia I saw in your driveway Ant....
Regards,
Brian

Oh no, way to exciting for me and my beige cardigan, and all this talk of XF Falcons, on a family forum! What is the world coming to.
I'm off for a drive in my Toyota, does an even better job than a Bex and a good lie down

 

[Tony66_au]

Here's your answer:

When the VE Commodore was designed, it was benchmarked against the BMW 5-series and beat it in every aspect.
It is a far superior vehicle to the current (or any previous) Ford designed or sold in this country.

I have tested the current Commodore and the equivalent Falcon (as a motoring journalist) and there is simply is NO comparison.

The Holden outperforms the Ford in EVERY aspect, especially handling and performance.

If it wasn't for the die-hard and fanatic followers (as well as the poor cabbies) Ford would have closed a longtime ago.

On another note, at the track, Ford's performance has been dismal.

Sorry, but you better open the shades so you can see the light!

Michel, re the cabbies.....

&% Taxi's in Melbourne were part of a trial over 10 years to replace their Falcon fleet with Commodores and had numerous Taxi Spec Commodores through the fleet from the VP to the late 90's.

The Taxi spec cars were actually Police spec V6's and I had cause to drive one hungry for a month while I was waiting for my new lease Cab.

It was actually a re badged Lexcen (I dont know how that happened) and it was nice and quiet inside compared to the Holden variant and a nicer drive compared to the EA's although both are Rack and pinion.

But the commodores were thirstier, suffered head issues (Like the falc) and chewed through Auto's and Diff's.

And when i had a chat to the boss he said they retired the commodores at 300'00 km unlike the Falcs which would do 6 to 900'000 km (I actually had an XF Fairmont with over a mill on the clock.

Now granted, Taxi's are very much the modern embodiment of Grandpa's Axe (6 handles and 3 heads replaced) but the fuel and life expectancy issues disqualify them for use as Taxi's even today and the Camry is a longer lived vehicle as a Taxi.

An observation made by Dougy the boss is interesting in hindsight.

He stated that if he could get a decent price on fleet leaseing Mercedes wagons he would replace the lot tomorrow with Benz's.

And yes, Ive driven Cabs on and off for 20 years.

 

[Michel]

Michel, re the cabbies.....
But the commodores were thirstier, suffered head issues (Like the falc) and chewed through Auto's and Diff's.
And when i had a chat to the boss he said they retired the commodores at 300'00 km unlike the Falcs which would do 6 to 900'000 km (I actually had an XF Fairmont with over a mill on the clock.
And yes, Ive driven Cabs on and off for 20 years.

You need to remember that the Falcons still use the in-line six which was designed in the sixties and had to be dumped because it will not pas the next set of Australian Design Rules (ADR)....

That motor (and all the simple engines of the sixties) was good for an easy half a million miles if well serviced.

 

[Oversize]

The Ford six is far more advanced than the US sourced Dunnydore V6 (damn you Buick)! The reason it won't pass emission regs is they keep changing the goal posts...

Where do I start with the VE??? My collegues drive them every day. V6 and V8. Comparing a VE with a FG is like a 6.3 with a 6.9 (but worse)! Agricultural, although slightly faster...

The VEs A pillars are that huge you'll need the multitude of the airbags!
Drivers vision generally is seriously impaired (try it with a deck spoiler),
The instruments look like they've been designed by a child (since the year dot),
Fly by wire has so much lag its scary,
A neighbour had that many electrical problems with his SSV and such poor service, it took the threat of media intervention before they acted. I think he had it in the shop at least 20 times and ended up trading it for a 5 series BMW,
Trim quality and texture is very poor,
They still use OHVs,
They sound rubbish,
The V6 is just rough,
The handbrake lever is crap,
The auto headlight switch is crap,
The 3 flashes of an indicator (whether you like it or not) is crap,
The cruise switches are crap,
The sound system is rubbish.....

And I'm not thinking that hard!!

 

[Michel]

The Ford six is far more advanced than the US sourced Dunnydore V6 (damn you Buick)! The reason it won't pass emission regs is they keep changing the goal posts...

Where do I start with the VE??? My collegues drive them every day. V6 and V8. Comparing a VE with a FG is like a 6.3 with a 6.9 (but worse)! Agricultural, although slightly faster...

The VEs A pillars are that huge you'll need the multitude of the airbags!
Drivers vision generally is seriously impaired (try it with a deck spoiler),
The instruments look like they've been designed by a child (since the year dot),
Fly by wire has so much lag its scary,
A neighbour had that many electrical problems with his SSV and such poor service, it took the threat of media intervention before they acted. I think he had it in the shop at least 20 times and ended up trading it for a 5 series BMW,
Trim quality and texture is very poor,
They still use OHVs,
They sound rubbish,
The V6 is just rough,
The handbrake lever is crap,
The auto headlight switch is crap,
The 3 flashes of an indicator (whether you like it or not) is crap,
The cruise switches are crap,
The sound system is rubbish.....

And I'm not thinking that hard!!

All of this talk and you still haven't told me anything about the handling and driveability of a Ford versus Holden.

No comparison.
The Ford handles like a billycart on wheels compared to the Holden
The ESP on the Holden will NEVER let you down and the reaction is in milliseconds.
The Ford's is pityfull... and quite right dangerous!

 

[Michel]

And please re-read this post http://www.topklasse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1770

 

[motec 6.9]

Sorry guys but i would not own any off them and yes i do have a reason first Michel. I drive a work provided 2009 ve sports wagon with 6speed auto and 3lt sidi v6 it has consumed oil since purchase but is still within allowable limit . Of 1lt every 1000km and yes you cannot see out of the car massive blind spots crap interior things break all the time has been back to dealer twice on the back of a flat bed. But like i said i dont pay for it or the fuel . Mark i have rented a couple of fg for work purposes in 6 cylinder form go better than ve sound better and have better vision . But seats are crap and seating position but i have not had 1 fail me though so that is a plus .That is why when it was my money the family car for the wife is a sy territory ghia awd just a better alround drive than the falcon seats are better to .And i have allready decided after a test drive that when the lease ends in November a new territory titanium will be the replacement. And i can console myself when i do not drive the work car with my 2008 hyabusa

 

[Oversize]

Yes neither of them are perfect and they both have their shortfalls. Around corners the VE performs better, at the expense of a smooth ride on a straight road. The acceleration of the VE V8s is just explosive, but they use old tech and sound rubbish. Unfortunately even the Territory has had problems with ball joints and brakes. Compared to the Europeans they are good value for money, but still far from cheap.....

Consensus among automotive journalists seems to suggest that the Porsche 911 (or whatever they call the newest variation) is the best performing car in the world. Just don't try to work on one; so make sure you have plenty of cash to spend on servicing and repairs!
The best performance for the money is probably the WRX, but I've seen problems with headgaskets and the styling is woeful!! So there you have it; no car is perfect. Even the 6.9 isn't, with its lousy seat bases, lack of full electrics, 3 speed tranny and propensity to rust....

 

[Lukas]

The VEs A pillars are that huge you'll need the multitude of the airbags!
Drivers vision generally is seriously impaired (try it with a deck spoiler),
Fly by wire has so much lag its scary
The V6 is just rough

I've not driven a Falcon for years, so can't speak about them, but work has a few current-ish Commodores / Calais, and I do agree with the above points in particular. I was stunned how poor the view out of these cars is, and also dissapointed about the lagginess, the auto transmission and the engine harshness. Thought ride quality was pretty marginal too, although the work ones all have the larger alloys with lowish-profile tyres (factory), so that may be why.

I'm not in the market, but have nevertheless ruled the Commodore firmly off my list of cars to contemplate. Based on what I read and see on the roads, my list would start with things like the Mondeo, Maxima, Superb and 6.

 

[BenzBoy]

The SUPERB is a rather nice car to drive and ride in - but sloooooooooowwww. Unless it is the 3.6 FSI model and that's quite snappy.
Mind you, it's hard to drive anything fast in Sydney traffic so maybe that's OK.
Regards,
Brian

 

[Michel]

The SKODA Superb is excellent value for money as it rides on the same platform as the Audi and VW and is well appointed.
I have tested the Mondeo and find it an uncomfortable car (i can't seem to feel comfy in any model), while the Maxima and Mazda6 are great Japanese products.

However, for legroom and cheer size you can't beat a full size Aussie, unless you try the new Peugeot 508: very impressive and very well priced!

 

[BenzBoy]

Unfortunately the downside for either a Ford or Holden product is the lack of internal ambience. Both seem to provide a similar sludge-grey interior with fake metal highlights that must wear down to the plastic with time.
I did recently drive a Monaro Special something (I have forgotten exactly what) in bright orange with bright orange leather seat inserts. It went well; it stopped; it was comfortable but still looked, smelled and felt like it had come from K-Mart. The stitching in the upholstery was a little uneven and the dash panel gaps varied just a smidgeon. Quite nice but somehow I did not feel it was a serious competitor for my dollar.
Regards,
Brian