The Citroen DS

[BenzBoy]

Benz Boy, I am interested in your comment about the GTi 6 shaping up as an almost completed project. Is there much more to go ? To me, the car looks just about perfect and completed. Regards Styria

Jerry painted the wheels last week so they have gone back on with new Michelin Pilot tyres and all that remains now is to repair some minor interior trim items so it's close to completion.
Regards,
Brian

 

[c107]

Those seats look superb - I think it's only the French that can build such comfortably luxurious seats. The car itself ? I am afraid, a mish mash of a rather loud exterior, with an interior scheme screaming of "not right" and at odds with the exterior colour. Under bonnet - not the best, unless I am getting mixed up with another post. It would not be a car for me. Regards Styria

Yes this car is non original in many ways, just a few below:
- The colour
- the seats have been recovered but not like factory
- car has some pallas trim but not all
- chevrons upside down!
- carpets

It does have one upgrade I would do to my car if I had that parts which is the radiator setup from the DS21ie or DS23. This has the header tank, improved radiator and electric fan.

If it were cheaper it could be a car you could drive and slowly improve over time.

 

[c107]

Fancy a rare DS project for $100? There are many to choose from as this farm is being sold and all cars in the shed must go. There are some very rare early cars in this sale.

https://citroenclassic.org.au/wordpress/classified/fr-sale/

 

[sean sherry]

Just a comment about the much maligned B.W. 35, Nothing much wrong with it when rebuilt properly ! Was fitted to thousands of Falcons and Chrysler Valiant, all with over 3 litre high Torque Engines. Would be be fine in a 2.3 Litre Citroen. They we designed for 2.5 Litre Ramblers . Just close up the front forward Drive Clutch Clearance to about 10 thou and fit a "Hard Lining" Rear Band. With the Valiant, furnace Braze the vanes in the Torque Converter. Chrysler would not pay B.W. to do this and B.W. were blamed for the many failures !
And reduce the cold start Auto Choke idle speed to below 1000rpm to protect the rear Band in reverse. In Reverse the Line oil pressure was double the forward Drive Pressure.. So go ahead and buy the B.W. equipped Cars ...

 

[c107]

Just a comment about the much maligned B.W. 35, Nothing much wrong with it when rebuilt properly ! Was fitted to thousands of Falcons and Chrysler Valiant, all with over 3 litre high Torque Engines. Would be be fine in a 2.3 Litre Citroen. They we designed for 2.5 Litre Ramblers . Just close up the front forward Drive Clutch Clearance to about 10 thou and fit a "Hard Lining" Rear Band. With the Valiant, furnace Braze the vanes in the Torque Converter. Chrysler would not pay B.W. to do this and B.W. were blamed for the many failures !
And reduce the cold start Auto Choke idle speed to below 1000rpm to protect the rear Band in reverse. In Reverse the Line oil pressure was double the forward Drive Pressure.. So go ahead and buy the B.W. equipped Cars ...

The BW cars get more hate than they deserve. I drove a 23ie and found it most satisfactory. Having said that the one thing i had as a 'must have' on my DS was the BVH which I regard as integral to the DS experience. My opinion only.

There is a good write up on the BW in the DS here:

It is basically summarized down to:

• Higher RPM at speed in top gear
• Lower performance
• Significantly higher fuel consumption

These cars may rise in popularity as I wonder how many of the next generation of car enthusiasts will be able to drive a manual gearbox? The BW box was an expensive option so the cars that have it tend to be the most highly optioned DS.

 

[abl567]

Is BVH a sort of Benz Hydrac equivalent?

 

[sean sherry]

Spot on about the next generation not knowing what the third pedal is for.
Even the current crop, including my 3 adult Granddaughters who would not even accept my offer of a free Manual Golf ! My Wife, two Daughters and Sons in Law all can Drive Manuals. But it has n't passed down the line.

P.S. close up the end float on Automatics as well to minimum Specs.

 

[BenzBoy]

Is BVH a sort of Benz Hydrac equivalent?

http://www.classicjalopy.com/1970-citroen-ds21/
Regards,
Brian

 

[c107]

http://www.classicjalopy.com/1970-citroen-ds21/
Regards,
Brian

To expand a bit on the article that BenzBoy linked, the BVH tries to do the same thing as the Hydrak but arguably does it better.

Mechanically it is a standard 4 speed manual box, same as the manual cars. There are just a few hydraulically controlled components to handle the clutch operation.

The system is quite clever and is very adjustable, so you can adjust the shift speeds, the amount of creep at idle and so on. I'ts practically impossible to stall a BVH car even though it has no torque converter or fluid coupling.

I suspect the system was expensive to build as Citroen moved to the C-matic system for the GS and CX which used a torque converter and in my opinion was inferior.

 

[c107]

Good article about the DS and some of the related cars:

https://petrolicious.com/articles/the-funky-french-designs-of-citroen

 

[c107]

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Citroen-DS-23-1973/SSE-AD-5310651/?Cr=1

This is a good honest DS23 for sale. This car is owned by a club member near me and while this car is not perfect, it's a car that can be enjoyed as is, or spend a bit of money to do some cosmetic work.

There is also an interesting thread on aussiefrogs concerning this car:
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/completed-near-completed-projects/85118-ds-pallas-restoration.html

 

[c107]

https://petrolicious.com/articles/why-the-citroen-ds-is-still-the-ultimate-luxury-car


Why The Citroën DS Is Still The Ultimate Luxury Car

 

[BenzBoy]

https://petrolicious.com/articles/why-the-citroen-ds-is-still-the-ultimate-luxury-car


Why The Citroën DS Is Still The Ultimate Luxury Car

What a shame the DS never had a motor worthy of the rest of the car! C107, there is a cheapish CX on carsales that could keep you entertained over winter.
Regards,
Brian

 

[c107]

What a shame the DS never had a motor worthy of the rest of the car! C107, there is a cheapish CX on carsales that could keep you entertained over winter.
Regards,
Brian

heh!
I need to get my DS back on the road before entertaining another Citroen!

I have always thought a small displacement V8 would have been ideal. something like 2.5-3.0. You couldn't get a straight six in, and v6's of the day were not particularly smooth.

 

[c107]

This is one of the nicest D-Super's that I've seen. The D-Super is a rare model in Australia, it was only brought here for a couple of years. For one reason or another Citroen brought in the D-Special, but made it more like a D-Super instead of bringing in the D-Super and then the top DS model (i.e. DS19, DS21, DS23 depending on year).

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/Citroen-D-1970/SSE-AD-6024129/?Cr=0

 

[Michel]

This is one of the nicest D-Super's that I've seen. The D-Super is a rare model in Australia, it was only brought here for a couple of years. For one reason or another Citroen brought in the D-Special, but made it more like a D-Super instead of bringing in the D-Super and then the top DS model (i.e. DS19, DS21, DS23 depending on year).

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/Citroen-D-1970/SSE-AD-6024129/?Cr=0

Wow, that is gorgeous and that is obviously reflected in the asking price!

 

[c107]

Wow, that is gorgeous and that is obviously reflected in the asking price!

Yes, the price seems reasonable for a car of this quality.

 

[abl567]

I wonder if they'd swap for a 6.3?

 

[Michel]

I wonder if they'd swap for a 6.3?

 

[abl567]

A change is as good as a holiday? Maybe.