Oils Revisited - Low Use 6.9

[SEL_69L]

The reason why engine oil should be changed more, rather than less often, I figure, has little to do with the quality of the oil. It is suggested that a good quality oil should last 30,000 klm, and I see no reason to disagree with this.

It has more to do, I think, with pollution of the oil with combustion products. When fuel burns, it produces water vapour, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, oxides of nitrogen (the nitrogen combustion products partly derived from the nitrogen in the air), and sulphur products, although the sulphur should only be there in trace amounts.

Small amounts of water vapour go into suspension in the oil, although they are also liberated by heat as well. Carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide dissolved in water produces carbonic acid, oxides of nitrogen dissolved in water vapour produce nitrous and nitric acid, and sulphur products dissolved in water vapour will produce sulphurous and sulphuric acid. You also get free suspended carbon in the oil, which will turn oil black. I guess that it also leads to sludge build up.

All of these pollutants will build up over a period of time, but the rate of build up happens more quickly when the engine is below normal operating temperature, and the clearances are greater than what is normally designed for.

None of the above unfortunately, answers the problem posed at the start if this string. If you drive your car say only 1500 klm per year, and for fairly long distances when you do, the rate of pollutant build up should be less. I guess that comes down to the question: How much pollution do you tolerate in the oil?

That is, for me, the answer that I am seeking.

 

[Lukas]

Interesting concept that your oil can be damaging your engine even while it is just sitting there, but certainly plausible.

Also supports my (unintended) world's longest oil change scenario - if the car is driven monthly, drain the oil while it is still wamr after one drive, and then refill just before the next drive. This means maximum old oil comes out, and it spends 1 month less in the engine corroding things.

Aside from cost and effort, another consideration for extending the change interval for me is the environmental cost - dumping 12L of oil yearly is better than doing it 6-monthly. Of course, 6.9s and the environment aren't really compatible to start with

 

[TJ 450]

Of course, it depends on what you mean by "the environment". Getting into the philosophy of it, human beings and 6.9s are not separate from the environment, but rather part of it to begin with.

Tim

 

[Styria]

Of course, it depends on what you mean by "the environment". Getting into the philosophy of it, human beings and 6.9s are not separate from the environment, but rather part of it to begin with.

Tim

What a sensible and rational approach to a subject so much of a fuss of ! - and I don't really know why and to what justification. Regards Styria

 

[Lukas]

Of course, it depends on what you mean by "the environment". Getting into the philosophy of it, human beings and 6.9s are not separate from the environment, but rather part of it to begin with.

Tim

That's a very engineering approach - draw a box around whatever suits and call it the environment

For the record, ended up buying a 20L drum of Penrite HPR 15 ($115ish) - a semi-synth 15W50. Would have gone for a drum of their "everyday" full synth if it was available in drum size, but it wasn't, and the $$$ are a little tight at present. Similarly, the choice of Penrite was only because it was sold in the drums.

The oil on the dipstick was blacker almost as soon as the engine turned over, but it will take a few changes to give the system a good clean. Engine does seem to run a little quieter, but given that it is a month between runs, that could just be my perception.

 

[etmerritt33]

After reading up on oils and trying to find something I like that still contains what is needed for older cars I have landed on Lubro Moly MoS2 10w40 to be changed twice a year regardless of mileage. Every engine I have put this in causes the engine to run more smoothly. I have never said that about any oil previously. I think in AU you would look for Liqui Moly.

 

[Tony66_au]

...well, who on earth makes Royal Purple ? Do you know anything about AMSOIL SYNTHETIC ? I know just that little bit about it. Regards Styria

Amsoil is all synthetic, and it had a real edge when Synth oils were really not as good as they made out, something to do with cracked polymers etc.

Ive used it in old cars with great success BUT I also use their filters and/or filter systems in years gone by.

The difference between Benz's and more common cars though is fit and tolerances which means that you HAVE to be good with your oils and changes and these days I use a 15-40 Nulon either the petrol or diesel stuff.

Why?

2 reasons,

Because of all the oils available in Australia they contain the highest levels of ZDDP (?) or Zinc which is an anti wear additive in oil.

And since Ive started using Nulon oils my old banger 230TE fuel consumption has gone from 6.5 k per litre to a consistent 9 to 9.6k per litre in the space of 10 fuel fills and she is quieter on startup even on freezing zero degree mornings (Although it is garaged).

http://www.nulon.com.au/

and the lube guide is at http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/NulonAus/ and they actually have a listing for the 450 6.9.

 

[Styria]

After reading up on oils and trying to find something I like that still contains what is needed for older cars I have landed on Lubro Moly MoS2 10w40 to be changed twice a year regardless of mileage. Every engine I have put this in causes the engine to run more smoothly. I have never said that about any oil previously. I think in AU you would look for Liqui Moly.

Hi Tom, I have not heard of this particular oil that you are referring to. Is it Brand, or is it just a name being used ? The term "Moly" of course usually relates to being a special additive that's part of the oil one buys. It's good to have your input and I for one would be greatly interested in your conversion to a high compression 'Euro' engine and the work involved. In addition, and only if you have the time and inclination, did you ever sort your problems with the various warm-up regulators. Regards Styria

 

[Styria]

Hi Tony, I take it that you no longer use Amsoil ? If not, any particular reason ? Cost ? I wonder if it is still available, especially in Sydney. I have only ever used Amsoil as a two stroke lubricant in a Husqvarna 420 , or the 390, I used to own. The recommended ratio of mix was 100:1 and quite frankly I was totally sceptical as to the recommended ratio and to what extent it would lubricate the piston and barrel area of the engine.

When I eventually removed the head (very easy on a two stroke), there was a beautiful amount of oil film on all components. It was from then on that I was sold on synthetic oil. Regards Styria

N.B. Nowadays, with 12 liters required for the 6.9, oil changes can become expensive, so I now use Castrol Magnatec - mind you, that's getting up in price as well. Try about $40.00 for five liters from Repco outlets.

 

[Tony66_au]

Hi Tony, I take it that you no longer use Amsoil ? If not, any particular reason ? Cost ? I wonder if it is still available, especially in Sydney. I have only ever used Amsoil as a two stroke lubricant in a Husqvarna 420 , or the 390, I used to own. The recommended ratio of mix was 100:1 and quite frankly I was totally sceptical as to the recommended ratio and to what extent it would lubricate the piston and barrel area of the engine.

When I eventually removed the head (very easy on a two stroke), there was a beautiful amount of oil film on all components. It was from then on that I was sold on synthetic oil. Regards Styria

N.B. Nowadays, with 12 liters required for the 6.9, oil changes can become expensive, so I now use Castrol Magnatec - mind you, that's getting up in price as well. Try about $40.00 for five liters from Repco outlets.

Amsoil is definitely still available Styria and from a number of sources including ebay.

I used to get mine from a wholesaler in Dandenong Vic and stopped buying it when I no longer had a trade account, it is IMO the very best synthetic product for any combustion engine and if you were using Sabre 2 stroke oil you have done your bike a kindness many times over.

Some reading for you.

http://www.amsoil.com/

My old supplier http://www.lubricationmanagement.com.au/shop/

and their FAQ http://www.amsoil.com/frequent.aspx


Then again im also a big Slick50 fan and used to apply it to client cars with more than 20'000 km on the clock, Ive rebuilt engines that have been run without oil or cooked that have been slick50'd by us and it also works and works well as cheap insurance.

Hope this helps,
Tony

 

[Tony66_au]

Oh and while i think of it?

Australian distributor http://enginecare.com.au/products/amsoil-synthetic-lubricants

4 lt of Amsoil used to set me back $70 ish dollars per 4 lt and a full flow filter around the $22 mark based on my wholesale 200 lt bulk buy price but given that the US dollar is in the toilet right now Id suspect you will do better.

But you will do 50,000 km oil changes if you use the Amsoil screw in cart oil filters and better if you use their remote filtration systems.

The stuff just doesn't break down and you have to use it to believe it.

I used to use their Sig series or SSO oil, a 0-30 oil which replaced the Mobil 1/Penrite Syn10 and redline stuff I also kept in stock and dollar for dollar it was comparable or far cheaper.

http://enginecare.com.au/products/m...page=flypage.tpl&product_id=42&category_id=16

The only problem is once you become a believer you tend to froth and twitch a bit telling everyone else so apart from rare occasions I now just say "Yeah, its good stuff" and point people in the right direction lol.

Hope I didnt froth too much.

Tony

 

[Styria]

HI Tony, I have looked at their range on the website and it would appear that the ASL product would appear to be the oil that could perhaps be used in Gleaming Beauty. I am just a little worried in regards to the comparatively thin viscosity and of course what it might cost - as you may know, 6.9s take twelve liters of engine oil. It's a pity that they don't mention prices on their website - well, at least I didn't see any listed. Thanks for the links. Regards Styria

N.B. I wonder how Amsoil would compare with the Redline range ? The local Auto Traders shop stocks the stuff - I think at about $90.00 for five liters. How does that sound ? (Tony, Bill, anyone !)

 

[Tony66_au]

Amsoil is usually 2 to 4 times the price depending on where you buy it and yep I know about the 12 litre (Inc filter) fill.

But heres the kicker, Use their full flow filter, and their oil and the oil change frequency blows out to 25'000 km using the good stuff.

And if you are worried about this huge mileage then just change the filter every 10'000 km or so.

Here's the service spec,

SERVICE LIFE
AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:

• Normal Service(3) – Up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Replace AMSOIL Ea oil filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first (other brands at standard OEM* intervals).
• In all non-gasoline fueled vehicle applications, extend the oil change interval according to oil analysis or follow the OEM* drain interval.

Now I went and checked the Amsoil product recommendation check but couldn't find the 450 6.9 listed but did find a listing for 1980 MERCEDES BENZ 450SEL 4.5L 8-cyl Engine Code 117.968 which is here http://www.amsoil.com/mygarage/Prod...?FromIndex=1&url2=1980+MERCEDES BENZ+450SEL+G

BTW this link takes you to Amsoil USA's ecommerce site http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/default.aspx

And this has US prices http://www.amsoil.com/a/synthetic-motor-oil-engine-oil


Amsoil is its own worst enemy because its stuff is so good its unbelievable, so people don't believe it.

 

[Tony66_au]

Well that, and people automatically think Amway when you say Amsoil.

BTW Styria, I was going to copy and paste the info from their site but its not happening my end for some reason, so the links will have to do.

regards,
Tony

 

[Tony66_au]

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate!

Found it on eBay in Melbourne!

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Amsoil-oil-A...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19c4ce7f23

or the store here http://stores.ebay.com.au/Harold-Pe...87017013&_sid=331931973&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322


And their website is here http://performancelub.com/