Patrick's Trucks ?

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Michel

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Great read Pat!
Nice to see we're all on the savings band wagon!
I have installed a 43-panel solar system and we hardly ever pay for electricity.
I'm not convinced on the value of a 10kW battery as it drains in no time for the initial cost (Waiting for a 50kW to be available at the right price)
And the A/C ... didn't that make a difference when we replaced the 20 year old one with the Mitsubishi Electric with inverter technology.
The house is freezing cold on 40C days and very warm on sub-zero nights!
I love technology!
 

Patrick_R

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Sean,
I didn’t cover your question about Volvo going full electric, and if they have shot themselves in the foot.
To answer you fully, it needs a little explanation.
Sorry for the lengthy explanation below.

Their new C40 recharge model (based on their XC40) has a range of 418km.
This is the sticker range which EV’s have similar to the stickers we find on all other new vehicles sold in Australia.
As you can see the Hyundai has a better range than the Volvo.
CB2C3D3F-F7F0-4347-8822-E7889B4CC4ED.jpeg
As yo can see (this is the principal of James Ruse Agricultural High Schools new car where my wife works) the sticker gives us W per km, and a total range.
W per km, is a good base to look at when considering an EV, this is similar to L/100k, the lower the usage, the more range per fill.

Like the stickers we find on ICE vehicles, this would be a “best case scenario” test.
I would have liked to have seen a combined score shown, as our trucks certainly differ in W/hour based on topography.
All EV OEM’s do offer (at an additional cost) complete home charging solutions with their vehicles.
From simple plug into a power point chargers, to hard wired high amperage chargers. Of course, this is based on what type of supply you have at your premises, if you have solar or not etc etc.

In a some cases (but not all) the domestic batteries that can be fitted to a house may not be acceptable to dump straight into an EV, some can, but you will need to check with the manufacturer of the battery to see if it can.
A Tesla wall, can do all things, but they are also up to four times more expensive than your typical home or domestic battery.
Normal home batteries in some cases, can be used as a UPS (Uninteruptable Power Supply) in the case of a power outage, and some can not, you will also need to check with the battery supplier.

Of interest, my domestic battery can be used as a UPS in a power outage, but once flat, it can not recharge again via the solar panels IF the grid supply is still out.
A Tesla wall can, as it also has a UPS within, but as mentioned these batteries are very expensive.
The battery needs an external, or other power supply to switch over to charging, so if the power is still out, it can’t switch over.
It’s not to often we have a power outage in this day and age in normal suburbia, and if we do, a normal battery with a UPS function will work fine as the outage may only be for a number of minutes or under an hour.
The UPS function on a domestic battery is all based on the load applied to it.
If the load exceeds its rated power, it will switch out and now power will be supplied.

So, what I am saying is that all EV’s Will come with their own home charging solution.
The higher amperage ones can do a rapid fast charge to around 80% of battery capacity, however plug in ones don’t have this capability.
The idea is to probably half deplete the battery, top up overnight to 100% and away you go.

The key word here is overnight.
This will use grid power IF your battery is unacceptable to charge the EV battery.
The above Hyundai IONIQ has a 72.6kW/h battery, Brian’s and my batteries are 10kW/h batteries.
kW/h is how many kW, electricity is delivered or consumed per hour.
You can now see why normal batteries can’t do this.

My wife is wanting her next car to be an EV. She still works full time. Her return traveling distance from our house to Carlingford every day is 80km, X five days is 400km per week. This does not cover, shopping on the way home, visiting her mother etc etc, so mid week charging would be a must.
How do we do this, overnight and pay for grid usage, or does she leave the car home and charge during the full day with the help of the solar system, that will be ok, IF the weather is good and the system is working at full capacity for the day.
The main things are, how far can the car go without charging, how do I charge it and when.
All of these things need to be considered when buying any type of EV.
At Volvo, we have a few new terms when it comes to EV’s
Range anxiety, charging window, charging opportunities etc etc

So getting to the point of your question.
If we use the rounded figure of 400km, on the Eastern seaboard, there are quite a few chargers of the high amperage available.
That means roughly a 30 minute stop to rapid charge your car to 80% of its range.
Sounds ok, after roughly 400k’s a 30 minute stop sounds good right?
Agreed, however during peak holiday seasons, some charging stations, service stations or service centres along our Eastern seaboard are overwhelmed with people wanting to do this 30 minute recharge. We have all seen the massive queues at these charging stations similar to a petrol station selling cheap fuel, long long queues.
Once you have waited for a charging point, you then have the 30 minute charge time.
This is the potential issue with EV charging when the EV is intended for interstate or long distance travel.

It all depends on the amount of charge points available, and of those, which ones are capable of rapid charging.
Also, the OEM’s state that battery life can be shortened by always using rapid high amperage chargers.

For those of us to have been lucky enough to travel through Europe, we have seen the massive banks of chargers at the huge service centres dotted along all of the major motorways.
Some I have seen have over 50 high amperage charge points.
The best I have seen here on the Hume Highway has been 6 at one service centre.
You can see how this is going.
Our major fuel retailers are doing huge work in installing rapid chargers at most of their service stations, but there will only be a few at best, and as we know, there can be massive distances between service centres here unlike the UK or Europe.

I do know it’s a work in progress, and if you buy one of these EV only Volvo’s, it will just take some planning to do some of these extended trips.

I know when I go visit my extended family of nephews & nieces in Port Macquarie and Narooma, I don’t want to factor in a 30 minute stop, but that’s me.
Brian with his pack of pooches may love this 30 minute layover.

The EV revolution may completely change how we do everything, from work travel to holidays.
It does seem that all types of EV are here to stay, and with the rules and regulations for nearly all western nations are to be green and environmentally friendly.
It’s funny how a lot of other countries, don’t give a crap about this, and are still building coal fired generators, and have no interest in emissions standards for their vehicles.

Most OEM’s have now put a final date of ICE production, and this is approaching rapidly.
Volvo car really threw the cat amongst the pigeons with this announcement.
Maybe it will force the hands of other OEM’s and the infrastructure companies.
So we all need to consider this moving forward.

For my wife and I, our plan is to still buy the diesel Kia Carnival which will be used for our extended drives interstate trips etc, and an electric vehicle for all local drives and her work trips.
Kia have announced that possibly in 2023, a hybrid power train may be available for the Carnival as it’s underbody twin the Sorrento, already has this option in Oz.

So out of interest.
I was in Queensland at my head office a couple of weeks ago.
At Hertz I can pick any car I want due to my Hertz status.
I chose a Toyota RAV4 hybrid, purely to check what the hybrid was like.
I have driven the diesel Carnival extensively, and I can easily achieve a combined usage of 5.5L/100k without too much trouble.

The RAV after 4 days of me driving it for economy to the best f my ability achieved a combined usage of 7.4L/100k.
Even with using the lightest throttle pressure I could, the engine always cut in even when traveling on a flat road.
For me, I feel a hybrid makes people feel they are doing the right thing for the environment, but doesn’t quite deliver.

I would like to hear from others re their experience with any type of EV.

This is the latest I can see re state government announcement.
 
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Patrick_R

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Great read Pat!
Nice to see we're all on the savings band wagon!
I have installed a 43-panel solar system and we hardly ever pay for electricity.
I'm not convinced on the value of a 10kW battery as it drains in no time for the initial cost (Waiting for a 50kW to be available at the right price)
And the A/C ... didn't that make a difference when we replaced the 20 year old one with the Mitsubishi Electric with inverter technology.
The house is freezing cold on 40C days and very warm on sub-zero nights!
I love technology!
Great to see we are all on the same page Michel.
Yes, fully agree the smaller the battery, the faster the discharge, based on what you are using.
I love that we all love technology 😊
Great result re the AC Michel, new AC are definitely the way to go.

I estimate that for my house, to use the AC to its fullest extent in summer & winter, I would need at least a 25 kW/h battery.
It is all based on value for money, and return on investment, and as Michel correctly states, bigger batteries are still very expensive.

I can keep adding modules, so I will be keeping a close eye on how the solar & battery covers everything coming into summer, as this will be the first extreme weather I can test it all.

Out of interest, it seems a normal domestic house can hold roughly 40-50 panels depending on roof size, and the direction of the roof compared to best sunlight.
For instance south facing panels are less productive compared to north facing panels.

I have switched off PV production to fully deplete my battery on a couple of occasions for testing.
On a good day, the battery can go from empty to full by between 9:30am - 10:00am.
On a rainy, bleak overcast day, it may take up to 2:00pm to reach 100%.

So for me, with 42 panels, on an ordinary day, and ordinary usage (PV panels running the house fully, and charging the battery at the same time) it all works pretty well.
However if I went to 20kW/h battery, my 42 panels may never fill the battery on an ordinary day.
 
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sean sherry

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Diesel ? I thought that these Engines were the enemy of Emissions and are soon to be abandoned in Europe.. My cleaner SUV Turbo Mitsubishi returns about 6 LTS P 100 Ks without an added particle Filter..
Dirty Diesels used to be the cry....They need a beefed up chassis and a more robust Auto Transmission.
Like needing heavier battery's for more range, EV Cars also carry a weight penalty....
I recall Colin Chapman, Lotus Cars ,saying ..... lightness = H.P.
 

BenzBoy

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Diesel ? I thought that these Engines were the enemy of Emissions and are soon to be abandoned in Europe.. My cleaner SUV Turbo Mitsubishi returns about 6 LTS P 100 Ks without an added particle Filter..
Dirty Diesels used to be the cry....They need a beefed up chassis and a more robust Auto Transmission.
Like needing heavier battery's for more range, EV Cars also carry a weight penalty....
I recall Colin Chapman, Lotus Cars ,saying ..... lightness = H.P.
Sean - there is simply no way an EV will get me to a dog show in western NSW and home again on the same day without delays unless I tow a trailer and generator. Horses for courses; or in this case, diesels for dogs. ;)
Regards,
Brian
 
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sean sherry

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For me Brian I would not have an EV for free, neither the economics or the convenience adds up
My new Great Grandson perhaps . Yes, and perhaps Tiggy's solar hydrogen to the recue. here...
 

Patrick_R

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Sean,
The current EuroVI rated diesels, are far cleaner than the equivalent petrol engines.
Yes, there is a DPF and AdBlue required, but that’s a slight penalty for cleanliness.

The diesels you refer Sean, are very old fashioned, mechanical injected types that clogged up Europe’s cities, because they were cheap to produce, and back then, there were no emission rules in Europe.
Today, batteries are all the same, transmissions are all the same, there isn’t a whole lot of difference, they are just super clean.

The Kia Carnival I’m looking at in petrol form is returning somewhere in the vicinity of 12-15L/100k. Crazy stuff.
For extended travels that my family and I do, that 1000k single tank non stop trip is a must.

For around town, full electric sure is the way to go.
No real servicing costs either.
 
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sean sherry

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sydney
Two car families have taken a different meaning .... EV for the City... Fossil Fuel for the Country.
Our W204 C Class 85K returns about 11Lts/100K. But travels less than 6000kS/year...
Wife's shopping car. Costs very little to Run...The Mitsubishi SUV Turbo, 8 in town 6 in Country.
I can live with that ... They will both easily outlive me !!!
 
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sean sherry

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The learning curve.... never stops..... till the Pine Box arrives !!
Famous Violinist in late eighties was asked....
"How long did it take you to learn the Violin ? "Don't know son I am still learning"
Or, quick ,quick hire a teen ager whilst they still know everything !!!
 

Patrick_R

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It’s mainly injection pressure Brian.
However compression ratios have risen to as much as 25:1
Super high injection pressures = low NOx (nitrogen oxide) these pressures now in common rail, with electronically controlled injectors can exceed 50,000psi (nearly 3,500 bar)
We now even use what is called a wave piston to ensure a more complete swirl and combustion with extremely low soot, and due to the super high fuel pressure, extremely low NOx.
The remaining NOx left in the system, is then treated in the exhaust system with DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) or better known in this country as AdBlue using the SCR method (Selective Catalytic Reduction) It basically turns NOx into water and steam.
This gas then goes through a normal DOC (Diesel Oxidation Catalytic converter) as well.
Back at the top end, we also use EGR (something quite old we have all heard of) this also then readmits some of the burnt gases back into the combustion chamber for the re burning of any unburnt fuel, to ensure all fuel is completely burned.
This also goes through a DPF or (Diesel Particulate Filter) to ensure what little particulate remains is caught.
This particulate, in normal circumstances is burnt off in the DPF, which also resembles a Catalytic converter.

So a huge amount of change and treatment to ensure these engines are super clean.
In some polluted countries, what comes out of the exhaust, is cleaner than the air brought into the engine.

This type of emission standard has been used in the USA, and in Japan since 2017.
The Australian government has now set a date for Euro VI for us as being 2025.

Brian,
I would hazard a guess that your Estate wagon, would use a very similar system, and may even include AdBlue.
Some European (and Japanese) vehicles use AdBlue either added to by the driver with a second filler next to the fuel filler, or a cartridge or tank that is big enough to see the vehicle through to the next service. The owner in this case, may never really know their car uses AdBlue, as it will only appear on the service invoice.

0DBE7917-5C8C-42F3-9532-5B772DC02A80.jpeg

FBC0436D-AA4B-4438-999D-21FC1FEA2270.jpeg

Euro VI below is the dotted line in the bottom left.
A3B31B3C-9302-4F52-88E3-91322C5E4A5D.png

As I am more familiar with trucks than cars, the below chart shows that indeed cars in some countries are in fact slightly cleaner much earlier than trucks were super clean.
7C8F4DAB-C513-45CC-ABB5-696EB9FD19B3.jpeg

To also add to Sean’s comment about old diesels chugging out smoke, to me it seems as though even though some of these vehicles were built to comply, I would say due to very dense vehicle population, very high mileage, combined with very poor maintenance, that this was the main contributing factor to these European cities pollution.
Does anyone know when continental Europe start doing yearly emission testing on cars for rego purposes?

My memory of all of these shit boxes was that of oil smoke which is blue, not over fueling producing black smoke And soot.

As usual, governments just left it as to late to do something meaningful to combat this.
This is where Japan leads the way, with the USA right on her heels.
 

Patrick_R

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As I mentioned my head office is now fully self sufficient by the use of the hundreds of solar panels.

We have also installed a number of charge points for our demo electric trucks, and points for employees cars.

One of my colleagues who has a Tesla S, charges his car during the day for free, and then plugs the car into his house at night to fully run the house via his Tesla.
No need to install a home battery, if you can completely run your house off solar during the day, and the car at night.

This may be a good way to get your 50kW working for you Michel, plus you can drive your home storage battery 🤣
 

Patrick_R

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Michel,
It certainly is the right colour 🥰

He took me for a good drive, and the car drove its self by the way, I was so very wowed by it.
Very very impressive.
The acceleration was mind boggling.
 
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sean sherry

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sydney
More Patrick ! Sydney has a mix of Buses. Man, Mercedes, and Volvos.
Some are Gas powered,,,, are Volvos ?
Of interest ...In Brisbane , mid sixties, my next Door neighbour was the Bus Depot.
An ageing Fleet of Daimlers fitted with Wilson Pre- Selector Transmissions.
Good for 1,000,000 Plus Miles
But not forgetting the Trams ...
 

Patrick_R

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Sean,
Volvo has used every single method of combustion for buses over the years, and yes gas as well.
Out of interest, Volvo was a very early operator of buses with a hybrid power train, but not the first.
However they have been very pioneering in the battery electric bus market, and are selling very strongly into all Australian bus services.

I remember all of the old buses and transmissions from the 60’s onwards Sean.
I still remember seeing my first pre selector transmission without a clutch pedal.
Loved sitting up front just to watch the driver.

Volvo bus as we know it (large passenger buses and coaches) is a massive conglomerate formed by very big and successful bus company acquisitions globally. Most notably, Leyland bus.

This is how a Volvo bus comes to Australia from Sweden.
Very short, and fun to drive.
The bottom pic, then shows what the bus body manufacturer does to it.
9B6F1310-FBDC-42CE-8193-C9472D27F259.jpeg
9695B0AA-107E-4EAC-B28F-3D212D2288D8.jpeg
 
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