Fully Gangsta Bro
- Thread starter Lukas
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Mercules
Spiltting lanes
How much does a 450SEL weigh?
Only reason I ask is that my Soarer has exactly the same engine and with almost 1600kg to haul around the performance is remarkable
Only reason I ask is that my Soarer has exactly the same engine and with almost 1600kg to haul around the performance is remarkable
Hi Cam, the Benz weighs in at 1735 kgs. I wonder just how much work has gone into this car and how well the work was done ? By the looks of it, the 3 speed Auto still seems to be used, and it would be very interesting just how this conversion was carried out.
I read on the 'Soarer forum about the difficulty of overcoming the location of "the monstrous steering box", but of course that guy had fitted the Lexus V8 engine, plus the Toyota box etc. Very interesting. Regards Styria
I read on the 'Soarer forum about the difficulty of overcoming the location of "the monstrous steering box", but of course that guy had fitted the Lexus V8 engine, plus the Toyota box etc. Very interesting. Regards Styria
BenzBoy
Grand Master
If the engine is the heart and soul of a car then this monster deserves to fail. It is but the bastard progeny of a child's fantasy.
Enzo Ferrari is reported to have said: I sell you an engine - the rest you get without cost. If that is so, then this vehicle has ceased to be a Benz. It is a Toyota.
There must be spare capacity at the local waste transfer station?
Regards,
Benz-Boy
Enzo Ferrari is reported to have said: I sell you an engine - the rest you get without cost. If that is so, then this vehicle has ceased to be a Benz. It is a Toyota.
There must be spare capacity at the local waste transfer station?
Regards,
Benz-Boy
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And I was considering bidding on 'THAT'
Coomee Ooooooon... DO IT!!!
You know you wanna!!That would probably even have a good crack at my SE 6.9.
If I had some spare coin lying around I'd have a dig at it.... well worthy I reckon, but such a nice sleeper.
Naturally the chrome wheels would have to go though. Take it back to some nice old school deep dish pan wheels or something..I've got to have another dig at this thread. First thing to eliminate is the upholstery - it suffers from the normal 116 leather problems. The rear cushion has collapsed, and the driver's seat can do with quite a bit of TLC - in other words, refurbishment. Also, someone should align the fitting of the front bumper bar.
That's enough of the criticism. What about the rest of the car ? The principle of the conversion is very appealing. Contrary to BenzBoy's assertion, I still regard the car as a W116 Mercedes Benz S-Class. Never mind the engine - well, in fact, if anything, it needs to be considered an improvement. It begs the question - why do we have a 116. Looks, desirability, quality of manufacturing ? If I had a 450 (well, I do, but forget that), I'd have no hesitation in installing a more modern, up to specification engine. It would add to the desire to owning a car like that.
On the other hand, if it came to replacing an M100 engine in the 116, the answer would be an emphatic "NO". That would be tantamount to killing the car. A 6.9 is a 6.9 and should always be that. They have their own issues suspension wise (perhaps), but even that feature I would want to maintain and it is the engine that makes it special enough to want to own and cherish one. Never mind that there is faster, and probably better around, but it's still a 6.9.
So you need to ask yourself why you have a 116 - is it for the engine, is it for the really appealing '70s retro look with all that chrome ? Therein may be your answer. I further think that condition is of great importance - I have seen some 450s, 280s etc. in immaculate condition both body and interior wise, and there is no way that one would want to fit mechanicals from another manufacturer. Just my thoughts. Regards Styria
That's enough of the criticism. What about the rest of the car ? The principle of the conversion is very appealing. Contrary to BenzBoy's assertion, I still regard the car as a W116 Mercedes Benz S-Class. Never mind the engine - well, in fact, if anything, it needs to be considered an improvement. It begs the question - why do we have a 116. Looks, desirability, quality of manufacturing ? If I had a 450 (well, I do, but forget that), I'd have no hesitation in installing a more modern, up to specification engine. It would add to the desire to owning a car like that.
On the other hand, if it came to replacing an M100 engine in the 116, the answer would be an emphatic "NO". That would be tantamount to killing the car. A 6.9 is a 6.9 and should always be that. They have their own issues suspension wise (perhaps), but even that feature I would want to maintain and it is the engine that makes it special enough to want to own and cherish one. Never mind that there is faster, and probably better around, but it's still a 6.9.
So you need to ask yourself why you have a 116 - is it for the engine, is it for the really appealing '70s retro look with all that chrome ? Therein may be your answer. I further think that condition is of great importance - I have seen some 450s, 280s etc. in immaculate condition both body and interior wise, and there is no way that one would want to fit mechanicals from another manufacturer. Just my thoughts. Regards Styria
BenzBoy
Grand Master
Styria, I would argue that it is the total package of the car. Thus, change a significant component and you change the total. The car in question is neither a Benz nor a Toyota: it becomes a 'special'. Likewsie, I was offered a 280CE coupe at a very attractive price but the owner had removed the self-levelling suspension so I immediately lost all interest. This is entirely different from sensible and subtle upgrades such lighting upgrades which were not available at the time of manufacture and which add significantly to the safety of a vehicle. Would you drive a 1910 Ghost with acetylene lighting or would you upgrade it while retaining the appearance of the original system? I know people who have gone both ways but only one way gives you worthwhile vision.
I'm not sure that the 6.9 is so significant that it is the only model one should avoid altering.
In my books, one either keeps original features as intended by the designers or one bulids a 'special'. In the latter case it ceases to be eligible for its original name. I recently drove a Railton fitted with a Spitfire engine. It can claim to be a Railton 'special' but simply per virtue of a Spitfire engine it can not be called a Rolls-Royce. Mind you, it made a 6.9 look like an late '40s VW.
Regards,
Benz-Boy
I'm not sure that the 6.9 is so significant that it is the only model one should avoid altering.
In my books, one either keeps original features as intended by the designers or one bulids a 'special'. In the latter case it ceases to be eligible for its original name. I recently drove a Railton fitted with a Spitfire engine. It can claim to be a Railton 'special' but simply per virtue of a Spitfire engine it can not be called a Rolls-Royce. Mind you, it made a 6.9 look like an late '40s VW.
Regards,
Benz-Boy
I find that the W116's have a special 'feeling' on the road which is hard to describe - it's as though you are insulated from the road but still have a sence of the surface and the adhesion available. Not many cars have that unique quality. I don't think that I would really mind an engine / gearbox change if it vastly improved the car - but what would you use? Perhaps a 5 litre V8 from a later model?
Nice work... not sure what your limit is, but me personally would bid to about 5-6K. It's easy worth that IMHO, but of course others will probably not agree. The cost to do this conversion yourself (or pay someone) would exceed 5K I would think. Unless Mercules did it..
If you do acquire it BB, I reckon you'll take the title for the fastest 116 in the ACT.
It's the ultimate - Jap turbo motor and a W116 all in one.
Only made a couple of small bids on ebay to see how quick I was outbid. In this case, I was outbid on all 3 attempts by other peoples automatic bids.
I am not bidding big money for something I cant see and drive first hand; the problem is I can't get to Sydney before the auction ends. If it's still for sale, I might head up over easter and have a look.
If I decide to pursue it, I don't really know how much I would pay for it, but it would wanna be fkn good to be worth $7.5k as per the buy now price on eBay.
Only made a couple of small bids on ebay to see how quick I was outbid. In this case, I was outbid on all 3 attempts by other peoples automatic bids.
I am not bidding big money for something I cant see and drive first hand; the problem is I can't get to Sydney before the auction ends. If it's still for sale, I might head up over easter and have a look.
If I decide to pursue it, I don't really know how much I would pay for it, but it would wanna be fkn good to be worth $7.5k as per the buy now price on eBay.
You are now getting serious, aren't you. Personally, I do not think that it will reach the "Buy it now price" and it will be passed in. This car would need an absolute expert's inspection to ensure that all mechanicals are suitable and compatible with each other - especially if consideration was given to use it as an everyday car.
Also, bear in mind, interior wise it is NOT perfect - money can be spent. Styria
It's the ultimate - Jap turbo motor and a W116 all in one.
Only made a couple of small bids on ebay to see how quick I was outbid. In this case, I was outbid on all 3 attempts by other peoples automatic bids.
I am not bidding big money for something I cant see and drive first hand; the problem is I can't get to Sydney before the auction ends. If it's still for sale, I might head up over easter and have a look.
If I decide to pursue it, I don't really know how much I would pay for it, but it would wanna be fkn good to be worth $7.5k as per the buy now price on eBay.
Hi bb, I can look at the car for you if so required. Just let me know. Regards Styria
You're putting it well John. There is something quite special about 116s. Again I say, if I had an immaculate 116, I would not have the gumption, audacity, cruelty, or whatever, to fit another manufacturer's engine. Mind you, to fit a Mercedes 5 litre V8, that would hold great appeal. To go one step further, the latest Chevy, is it 6 liters V8, makes a hell of a lot of sense. You get power, heaps of it, smoothness, simplicity AND ECONOMY - 8.5 liters per 100Ks. Very appealing - I believe one could buy a brand new unit, complete, for eight grand. Regards Styria
Swaping the Mercedes 6.9 engine for a Chev V8 would not help economy much with the low gearing (km/1000 revs) that Mercedes use, unless the diff was also changed. If you change the diff, that makes 1st gear very high, so then you really need to move to the 4 speed gearbox - almost never ending.
However a 6+L Chev engine in a 350 or 450, using the 6.9 diff and going to slightly larger rolling diameter tyres, now that is starting to make sence.
However a 6+L Chev engine in a 350 or 450, using the 6.9 diff and going to slightly larger rolling diameter tyres, now that is starting to make sence.
BenzBoy
Grand Master
Ah - but how many centuries would one wait before recouping the petrol savings? I admit it: I am a purist and against fiddling with a perfectly good motor car. If I wanted a Chvrolet I would buy a Chevrolet. Simple!!
Regards,
Benz-Boy
It's the ultimate - Jap turbo motor and a W116 all in one.
Only made a couple of small bids on ebay to see how quick I was outbid. In this case, I was outbid on all 3 attempts by other peoples automatic bids.
I am not bidding big money for something I cant see and drive first hand; the problem is I can't get to Sydney before the auction ends. If it's still for sale, I might head up over easter and have a look.
If I decide to pursue it, I don't really know how much I would pay for it, but it would wanna be fkn good to be worth $7.5k as per the buy now price on eBay.
See how you go... people would no doubt think I paid way too much for a 6.9 that had no air suspension etc... Eg, 9-10K was too much. BUT, after swapping the fordedes and paying remainder I ended up spending about 7K on it. To me, worth every penny.. I don't have to shell out for spheres, or struts or valves every so often. No head-aches, and more performance.. Good balance I reckon.
You need to remember, if you were to pay someone for this type of conversion (or any modern non benz engine into a W116 for that matter) you'd be spending a fair whack more than 7K.
To me the only concern with this car is how tired the engine/turbo is.. as forced induction engines have a much shorter life than an 'un-worked' benz engine.
Be keen to see what the drive-ability was like on this puppy.
Cam.
It was passed in at $3400. Wonder what they would take for it?
There is no way I can get up to Sydney before or during easter. If it's still not sold the week after, I'll go and have a look.
I hear what you are saying, but the thing is, it's not a conversion I would do myself, therefore how much it would have cost does not factor into my thinking - I am only interested in what it's worth to me.
My plan is to evaluate the car itself just as one would any other car, put a value on it as if it were a 450 proper and then add a bit to take into account the conversion. Even then, if the conversion is rubbish, it drives badly or needs lots of work to finish the job, I will pass.
There is no way I can get up to Sydney before or during easter. If it's still not sold the week after, I'll go and have a look.
I hear what you are saying, but the thing is, it's not a conversion I would do myself, therefore how much it would have cost does not factor into my thinking - I am only interested in what it's worth to me.
My plan is to evaluate the car itself just as one would any other car, put a value on it as if it were a 450 proper and then add a bit to take into account the conversion. Even then, if the conversion is rubbish, it drives badly or needs lots of work to finish the job, I will pass.
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