6.3 #2723
- Thread starter c107
- Start date
Big shout out to Sam the Towie. A gentleman and a professional.
He arrived outside my place at 8:50am, started reversing into my driveway and a hose blew on his power steering. Instead of throwing his hands in the air he arranged for the part to be delivered to him from an hour and a half away and started removing the damaged hose.
Thankfully I had a 24mm open ring spanner to remove one of the fittings.
He finally got it repaired about 11:30 then loaded up, with no complaints or grumbles.
He also very carefully secured both the wheels and body knowing the suspension was chocked up with timber blocks.
He arrived outside my place at 8:50am, started reversing into my driveway and a hose blew on his power steering. Instead of throwing his hands in the air he arranged for the part to be delivered to him from an hour and a half away and started removing the damaged hose.
Thankfully I had a 24mm open ring spanner to remove one of the fittings.
He finally got it repaired about 11:30 then loaded up, with no complaints or grumbles.
He also very carefully secured both the wheels and body knowing the suspension was chocked up with timber blocks.
- Thread Starter
- #4
Post to link to some other threads about 2723:
- April 2008 - Replacing Rubber Mounts and Bushings - https://www.topklasse.org/forums/threads/rubber-mounts-and-bushes.398
- August 2008 - Tuning and preparing for the M100 Rally - https://www.topklasse.org/forums/threads/out-this-morning-in-the-6-3.859
- September 2008 - Replacing the IP - https://www.topklasse.org/forums/threads/injection-pump-replacement.1069
- October 2008 - Replacing the IP Part 2 - https://www.topklasse.org/forums/threads/injection-pump-replacement-part-2.1132
- October 2008 - Tailshaft vibration - https://www.topklasse.org/forums/threads/tailshaft-vibration.1169
- October 2008 - Exhaust Work - https://www.topklasse.org/forums/threads/exhaust-mods.1170
- October 2008 - Shift Bushings - https://www.topklasse.org/forums/threads/work-on-the-6-3.1211
- December 2008 - Blocked TX Valve - https://www.topklasse.org/forums/threads/blocked-tx-valve.1330
- July 2009 - Brake pads - https://www.topklasse.org/forums/threads/my-new-garage-for-now.1853
- January 2010 - Transmission Removal - https://www.topklasse.org/forums/threads/6-3-transmission-removal.2110
- April 2011 - Cylinder head work - https://www.topklasse.org/forums/threads/six-3-has-had-a-make-over.6116
- October 2012 - Fuel Starvation issues - https://www.topklasse.org/forums/threads/fuel-starvation-issues-with-my-6-3.4143
- August 2015 - Rust repairs and roof paint - https://www.topklasse.org/forums/threads/six-3-has-had-a-make-over.6116
- Thread Starter
- #5
Well before I could do anything, I had to open the bonnet. The cable had become stuck and broke off the end of the release lever.
i tried a set of pliers on the cable but couldn't do it.
Having my 111 parked nearby let me inspect how the mechanism worked with the bonnet open. They are basically the same design.
i could see that if I could get the right angle, it would be possible to push the lever that the bonnet cable pulls on. I didn't have a screwdriver long and thin enough, and multiple 1/4" socket extensions sagged to much.
so i went to bunnings and bought a 6mm wide long threaded rod and put a joiner extension on the end to allow a cup like shape on the lever. after a lot of fiddling around, i was able to get the bonnet open
I've now put a rag over the mechanism so i don't accidently close it.
i tried a set of pliers on the cable but couldn't do it.
Having my 111 parked nearby let me inspect how the mechanism worked with the bonnet open. They are basically the same design.
i could see that if I could get the right angle, it would be possible to push the lever that the bonnet cable pulls on. I didn't have a screwdriver long and thin enough, and multiple 1/4" socket extensions sagged to much.
so i went to bunnings and bought a 6mm wide long threaded rod and put a joiner extension on the end to allow a cup like shape on the lever. after a lot of fiddling around, i was able to get the bonnet open
I've now put a rag over the mechanism so i don't accidently close it.
- Thread Starter
- #6
Not a lot happening on 2723 as i've been quite busy with work. However, a few things:
1) Started draining fuel, the hose from the tank to the pump is very perished, so will replace that.
2) Replace the interior light with a spare that came with the car:
3) Clean and feed the leather
4) Mount the relays
1) Started draining fuel, the hose from the tank to the pump is very perished, so will replace that.
2) Replace the interior light with a spare that came with the car:
3) Clean and feed the leather
4) Mount the relays
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- Thread Starter
- #7
Had some more time to work on 2723.
2) Drained the old fuel (about 15-25 liters left) and changed the strainer. The old strainer was pretty good, but not perfect so I used the new one since they are not particularly expensive. You need a 21mm hex to do it. They are about $20 from bunnings.
2) the old hose from the tank to the pump was badly perished, so I replaced it. When I was looking at the job I did, for a minute I thought I was going to re-do it, as that was hose I realized I had bought to do a return line for the SLS on the 560SEC. However, looking up the spec its specified for fuel and oil so I am good.
3) I was going to use the supplied K-jet pump as it was what the car was installed with. However, the new one had totally different type fittings and the barb didn't fit. I ended up using a D-jet pump which was going to be less work to use than adapting the system to the original short pump.
4) The old pump had quite a nice valve, but I wasn't able to re-use it with the D-jet pump so I removed this. I also replaced a broken ring terminal on the car's wiring harness.
6) when putting a battery in temporarily, I noticed a ground strap that was connected to the firewall near the negative battery cable, but not anything on the engine. I couldn't see where it would go, but there was a single bolt where the heat shield would go on the exhaust manifold that was not fully tightened, and it looked about the length so I tried it there.
7) Plugging the battery in, the electrics came to life. However, there was a click but the starter did not engage.
8) I tried checking the neutral safety switch. However, the plug disintegrated as I tried to unplug it, so i'll have to see if I can get the individual pins back in for now. There is not much room.
9) My next course of action is to re-check that ground strap. I think it may go somewhere else.
2) Drained the old fuel (about 15-25 liters left) and changed the strainer. The old strainer was pretty good, but not perfect so I used the new one since they are not particularly expensive. You need a 21mm hex to do it. They are about $20 from bunnings.
2) the old hose from the tank to the pump was badly perished, so I replaced it. When I was looking at the job I did, for a minute I thought I was going to re-do it, as that was hose I realized I had bought to do a return line for the SLS on the 560SEC. However, looking up the spec its specified for fuel and oil so I am good.
3) I was going to use the supplied K-jet pump as it was what the car was installed with. However, the new one had totally different type fittings and the barb didn't fit. I ended up using a D-jet pump which was going to be less work to use than adapting the system to the original short pump.
4) The old pump had quite a nice valve, but I wasn't able to re-use it with the D-jet pump so I removed this. I also replaced a broken ring terminal on the car's wiring harness.
6) when putting a battery in temporarily, I noticed a ground strap that was connected to the firewall near the negative battery cable, but not anything on the engine. I couldn't see where it would go, but there was a single bolt where the heat shield would go on the exhaust manifold that was not fully tightened, and it looked about the length so I tried it there.
7) Plugging the battery in, the electrics came to life. However, there was a click but the starter did not engage.
8) I tried checking the neutral safety switch. However, the plug disintegrated as I tried to unplug it, so i'll have to see if I can get the individual pins back in for now. There is not much room.
9) My next course of action is to re-check that ground strap. I think it may go somewhere else.
There is a foible with the starter, if you tap the brake pedal when you twist the key to start the starter will engage.
It's inexplicable but seems to work.
Sorry, forgot to mention that...
It's got to be something to do with that ground strap.
Also, under the dash on the RH side of the wheel is a press button that energises the cold start, I'm pretty sure I did mention that to you?
It's inexplicable but seems to work.
Sorry, forgot to mention that...
It's got to be something to do with that ground strap.
Also, under the dash on the RH side of the wheel is a press button that energises the cold start, I'm pretty sure I did mention that to you?
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- Thread Starter
- #9
Aaah thanks for the tip on the starter. I'll try that.
You did mention the cold start. I hadn't tried that yet as I wanted the engine to crank a bit and circulate oil around since its been a while since it was run.
- Thread Starter
- #10
had a go with the brake pedal pressed and no dice, so will put the car up in the air and inspect the connections to the starter, but probably won't be able to get back to work on the car for a month as I have the W123 event and then a work trip.
Stay tuned!
Stay tuned!
- Thread Starter
- #13
I’m now back from overseas and finished with the 123 event so thought I would have another go with the 6.3.
Instead of worrying about where the ground strap went, I got a jump cable and ran it from the negative battery terminal to the drivers side engine mount arm as it’s quite accessible. The solenoid clicks but no good
I then jacked up the car and ran the neg cable from the starter housing and still only a click. Possible I have a bad starter but instead of throwing parts at the problem will probably get it towed to a mechanic.
Instead of worrying about where the ground strap went, I got a jump cable and ran it from the negative battery terminal to the drivers side engine mount arm as it’s quite accessible. The solenoid clicks but no good
I then jacked up the car and ran the neg cable from the starter housing and still only a click. Possible I have a bad starter but instead of throwing parts at the problem will probably get it towed to a mechanic.
ProfessorExperimental
Noble
[Assuming the 6 3 starters are built like the w116 v8 ones, they sure look identical]
If the battery is a bit weak it can voltage sag enough under load that it can't push the pinion out far enough to slot past the ring gear teeth. Then the motor contact doesn't close (fortunately) so the motor doesnt turn. This is much more likely with a tired starter motor, as they are direct drive the starting current is quite high (modern starters are gear reduction almost universally).
If you try and hotwire the starter on the car you risk getting it to mesh enough to close the motor contact, but with only a partial engagement of the teeth (think pinion halfway out). This is presumably how one gets the part-eaten ring gear teeth like I have on mine, and eventually worn pinion teeth (it's much harder than the ring gear obvs). Doesn't help that the v8 stops in the same spot ecery time, but that doesn't sound like part of your problem (yet).
Off the car the difference between a starter that can just about, maybe, on a good day get the pinion in place and one that fires it out with a force that seems like it's going to break off its own shaft support is really obvious (a good clean and lube with wd or similar and a contact spray works wonders, though the real problem is the crusty old grease on the fork assembly, but the pinion bearings are also replaceable). The m116/7 ones are a pain to extract (sooo heavy) and I imagine the m100 ones are worse, so I can see why people try and shortcut. Don't.
After struggling (on the roadside!) to try and get my car turning over to the tune of 3 starters (original, brand new resnouted to rhd, refurbed) and refurbishing my original with a pinion service kit, I feel somewhat qualified to offer this advice that it may be all in your starter based on your symptoms (the brake trick sounds like it could be helping the solenoid overcome some stick-slip resistance by dropping and boosting the battery voltage the starter sees, and the click-nothing when hardlining with jumper leads definitely sounds familiar). Just avoid trying to diagnose on the car.
If the battery is a bit weak it can voltage sag enough under load that it can't push the pinion out far enough to slot past the ring gear teeth. Then the motor contact doesn't close (fortunately) so the motor doesnt turn. This is much more likely with a tired starter motor, as they are direct drive the starting current is quite high (modern starters are gear reduction almost universally).
If you try and hotwire the starter on the car you risk getting it to mesh enough to close the motor contact, but with only a partial engagement of the teeth (think pinion halfway out). This is presumably how one gets the part-eaten ring gear teeth like I have on mine, and eventually worn pinion teeth (it's much harder than the ring gear obvs). Doesn't help that the v8 stops in the same spot ecery time, but that doesn't sound like part of your problem (yet).
Off the car the difference between a starter that can just about, maybe, on a good day get the pinion in place and one that fires it out with a force that seems like it's going to break off its own shaft support is really obvious (a good clean and lube with wd or similar and a contact spray works wonders, though the real problem is the crusty old grease on the fork assembly, but the pinion bearings are also replaceable). The m116/7 ones are a pain to extract (sooo heavy) and I imagine the m100 ones are worse, so I can see why people try and shortcut. Don't.
After struggling (on the roadside!) to try and get my car turning over to the tune of 3 starters (original, brand new resnouted to rhd, refurbed) and refurbishing my original with a pinion service kit, I feel somewhat qualified to offer this advice that it may be all in your starter based on your symptoms (the brake trick sounds like it could be helping the solenoid overcome some stick-slip resistance by dropping and boosting the battery voltage the starter sees, and the click-nothing when hardlining with jumper leads definitely sounds familiar). Just avoid trying to diagnose on the car.
