Patricks Trucks

[Patrick_R]

Gents.
I was fortunate enough last week to be part of our official launch of the new heavy duty range of prime movers for the Australian market.
Also I took part in our EV Champions training regarding the new range.
It was a great deep dive into the mechanicals and electrical systems of these new trucks.
Volvo has really pinned their future on these trucks and other future potential power trains as they are going to be 100% carbon neutral by 2050, that is regarding powertrains and how the trucks are being produced.
It’s a big goal, that isn’t that far away.
This is one of our demo prime movers.

This is the main powertrain.
Three electric motors, attached to a fairly standard 12 speed I shift transmission.
490kW (666 hp) 2400nm (1770 lb/ft) torque.
540kW/h (total) battery capacity. Range (@ 45 tonne gross combined weight) 300km

This is the powertrain the above replaces.
That’s the I shift transmission on the far left at the back of the engine.
So the size difference is quite stunning.
The triple motors are not much bigger than the twin plate clutch pack in this image.

However The space the three small motors occupy is very little compared to the 16 litre ICE engine above,
The below image shows the Module Under Cab, that controls the whole system, including a full refrigerant cooling system for the 6 batteries.


The 6 batteries weigh 3 tonnes and basically fit in place of the ICE FH fuel tanks.

Take into consideration all of the above compared to my BYD.
150kW and 310Nm and a 60kW/h battery, with a total weight of 1,750kg range 420km.

Here are some short videos.

The main part of a salesman’s sales process now is the electronic range simulator I showed a video of earlier.
This will determine how the truck is built for the job required of it.
Here is the video again.

 

[Michel]

Fascinating, simply fascinating!!!

 

[Patrick_R]

Michel,
I think the most amazing thing in the above is the three motors, compared to the engine.
Amazing size difference.

 

[BenzBoy]

Patrick - how would such a truck go on a Sydney to Melbourne haul? For example, where would it recharge?

 

[Patrick_R]

Patrick - how would such a truck go on a Sydney to Melbourne haul? For example, where would it recharge?

That’s the big question at present Brian, linehaul is a major issue.
They do use a typical CCS2 DC charging station, but nearly all are dedicated to cars, and nothing bigger.
I’ve not seen any truck charging stops.
Lots of truck depots and distribution centres have them, but that is for their own urban (back to base) type work.
In Europe, Volvo and Daimler have started with governments to roll out charging infrastructure Europe wide, this will run into the hundreds of billions for sure.

As per my earlier posts, other ideas (the pantograph) are all being trialled.

 

[sean sherry]

Hi Patrick , Did I read this right ..Battery weight is 3 Tons ?
As with EVs all the extra weight has to be Borne by the Tyres and Suspension .. No Free Lunch.
Toyota say they are abandoning Electric for Hydrogen and are working hard to solve the Hi Pressure Storage and Production.
In the Sunshine Areas of the Planet Solar Power is plentiful for Production of Hydrogen. Locan Iron Ore producer "Fortescue" has big plans for Hydrogen Production. Long Distance Trucks ?

 

[Patrick_R]

Yes Sean, 3000kg just in batteries.
We have had to increase the tyre rating on the steer axle, as it bears the brunt of the load.

Oh yeah, all of the big companies will be re organising to see what new commodities they can make money from.

 

[BenzBoy]

Anyway, I like the colour

 

[Patrick_R]

I do as well Brian.
It’s the corporate colour of the Electric Range at launch globally.

 

[Patrick_R]

Gents.
2 weeks ago we held a dealer, customer & journalist drive week (well, four days, the fifth was for us to take back all the trailers and concrete weights etc) which gave everyone their first ever look and drive of our new electric truck range.
A very big week indeed, with dinners each night for the people who attended on that day.
Very positive feedback, and nearly every driver I was in with all had the same smile or look of amazement whilst driving around the track at the extensive RACQ track at Mt Cotton.
Firstly,
As I mentioned in a previous post, here is the 16 litre diesel that normally fits inside our FH flagship.
You can see the 12 speed AMT to the left, just behind the clutch assembly.

Here are some images from our display drivetrain that now replaces The above Diesel engine. The three seperate motors are all that is now needed to power this truck up to 60 tonnes combined truck & trailer mass. You can see in the back of the transmission the output flange that connects to a standard tail shaft then onto the bogie axles in a very conventional way. It’s only the motive power that is different.

Here are further images of the event.

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

Are the 3 motors wired in series (lower I2R losses) or parallel (lower voltage control/insulation requirements & less battery per W)? Or a configurable topology?

The size difference certainly is startling. I assume the extra space in the cabin translates to some driver comfort improvements? Might not be as big a selling point in the us with their cab realestate surplus as you've previously mentioned but in Europe I'm sure it'd sell a lot of fence sitters, at least the private owner drivers.

I won't pretend to have researched it but some random videos youtube recommended to me suggest that Toyota's angle on hydrogen storage isn't mechanical but chemical (ammonia)

 

[Patrick_R]

Are the 3 motors wired in series (lower I2R losses) or parallel (lower voltage control/insulation requirements & less battery per W)? Or a configurable topology?

The size difference certainly is startling. I assume the extra space in the cabin translates to some driver comfort improvements? Might not be as big a selling point in the us with their cab realestate surplus as you've previously mentioned but in Europe I'm sure it'd sell a lot of fence sitters, at least the private owner drivers.

I won't pretend to have researched it but some random videos youtube recommended to me suggest that Toyota's angle on hydrogen storage isn't mechanical but chemical (ammonia)

I don’t know about the motors, but I can find out.
Yes, really for long haul trucks it seems hydrogen will be the way to go, as the range on these is only 350km at present.
Volvo is working on a hydrogen fuel cell, but we haven’t seen or heard anything about it yet.
The medium duty BEV trucks like in the pics are working extremely well and re gen the moment the foot comes off the throttle, so around town they are great.

 

[ProfessorExperimental]

The problem with fuel cells (hydrogen or otherwise) has always been scale. I have no idea what the state of the art today is but when the buzz was kicking off the gotchas were already pretty evident. You could buy a fuel cell education kit from dick Smith electronics (remember them?) 20 years ago or more. Could run enough electrons round its little loop to just about light a 6mm led, so about 140uA @ something like 3V.

Try to push a higher voltage by forcing more (in the case of hydrogen) gas through the membrane per unit time and, well, turns out a super thin semi-permeable membrane responds to high pressure differentials about the same way a party balloon does (oddly enough also a super thin semi-permeable membrane, who would have guessed?). If you do it over a small, well supported area, that can be OK, but doing it over more than a few square cm... well... pop. So you can get some field strength but not a lot of electron flux, or liberate a few more electrons at a limited potential, but either way there's a power limit well below what we'd like to see with no obvious engineering solution.

And then the gas storage problem. Cryo can be done but look at private space launch: virtually no one does hydrolox, it's all kerolox or (maybe, one day) methalox, otherwise it's just too hard to be profitable. So a bit like Tesla turbines, Stirling cycle engines and other engineering novelties before it the hydrogen fuel cell IMHO remains an interesting, wonderful, educational tool.

 

[Patrick_R]

Very interesting Mark
If I hear about anything coming on line, I will be the first to get some info.

If you look back through this thread, you will see a post I did about Volvo hydrogen fuel cell.

 

[Patrick_R]

As this thread involves new or different technology, and I love to teach (which is a big part of my job) I think you tech heads out there will find any technology interesting.
As you know (or may not) a life long interest of mine has been the RMS Titanic, her sisters, her owners & her builders.
Of course I have been studying her building & engineering since primary school, so I have covered a lot of this tech right from a young age. Brian & I like watches & clocks, so, more miniature or micro engineering, but I also like giant engineering as mentioned.

As I have been studying steam powered vessels for over 50 years, recently I have started to look at other vehicles using steam as a motive power. Cars, trucks and locomotives.
Recently I have discovered this chap, who is a genius at animations & explanations.
The attached video is quite amazing showing what I believe to be one of the most complex old school tech machines have ever seen. The Union Pacific Big Boy, the biggest US locomotive ever made.
(I thought steam ships were complex )
Yes, it’s over 30 minutes, but if interested, it’s really worth a look for anyone interested in technology regarding moving people and goods from one point to another.
If this is of interest, please let me know and I will post other things of interest for us tech heads.
Please enjoy.

 

[c107]

have not had a chance to see the video yet, but it was impressive seeing a Stanley Steamer driving around the car show last weekend.

 

[Patrick_R]

Now that is way cool.
Did it have a steam whistle?

 

[c107]

Now that is way cool.
Did it have a steam whistle?

yes it did!
It was whistling as it chuffed around the field.

 

[Patrick_R]

That’s awesome!