W108/9 research

[Tony66_au]

I was chatting to my Lil Bro last week about the car club and historic permit's and he expressed a desire to buy a Mercedes which I have since identified as a W108 or 109 chassis.

The car he spoke about was a 6.3 so im assuming its a 300SEL 6.3 but I believe they also had M116 3.5 V8 as well as the M117 4.5 that graces so many of our beloved 450SEL's.

So my job is now to learn a bit more about them and a trip to Carsales.com.au showed me a few examples mainly 2.8 lt straight 6's.

So Gents, What is commonly available here in Australia and what price range?

Common issues and things to look for? (other than shonky workshops lol)

Any help appreciated!

 

[260ebenz]

PM sent Tony.

 

[Helmet]

Probably a good starting point would be a good condition 280S. Spring suspension, twin carbs, relatively easy to keep. If money is no object 300SEL 6.3, air suspension, mechanical fuel injection and plenty of grunt

 

[Tony66_au]

Probably a good starting point would be a good condition 280S. Spring suspension, twin carbs, relatively easy to keep. If money is no object 300SEL 6.3, air suspension, mechanical fuel injection and plenty of grunt

Ta Helmet, Pretty much money is no object and the car he was thinking of were actually 2 X 300SEL 6.3's (One Brown and one Mid blue metallic) that belonged to family friends years ago.

His current toy is an XJ 40 and it doesnt grab him the way the older Jags did and he likes my 116's but not enough to go that way.

I have to admit that todays research on Carsales has made me kinda want one too but preferably M116 or M117 powered.

As a matter of interest though, the 2.8 Twin carby set up? What are they?

Cheers Tony

 

[Tony66_au]

PM sent Tony.

LOL thanks Tim,

A bit too modern for his tastes, I texted him about 2 mins after your PM and he gave it a thumbs down preferring an older V8 mate

 

[WiSeGuYY]

HEY TONY,

AS you know i'm not in AUSTRALIA but i agree with yor brother W108/109 is more appealing rather than the first certified S class w116.

ANTHONY have one pritty cool 6.3 i think he is the one you can consult .
if he wants to go other way there i always the W111/112 coupe which is same family but much rare breed and then HELMET can give more details since he have a very fine RED ONE LOL.
REGARDS


TAREK

 

[Styria]

Tony, to start off with, the 4.5 litre engine was only fitted to cars sold in America. The biggest you get here is the 3.5 litre unit. There are two distinct preference - quite a number of people prefer the 108/109 models over the 116. It is a matter of individual preference.

The M130 2.8 litre engine is now getting a bit long in the tooth and good ones would not be easy to come by. Problems with heads can be just that - a problem. Second hand units are not easy to come by and invariably expensive. The 'S' models are equipped with the twin Solex carburettors - nowadays known for expensive parts and difficult to tune properly. I believe that the bases warp and the internal passages can be subject to calcification of the alloy.

King pins can be a problem, with replacements expensive, and the rear trailing arm bushes can be a sod to replace. Another area to look out for are the heater and fresh air controls - they seize up and rectification is an almost impossible task. How many have tried to remove the heater box ? Removal is most times required to fix those heater taps. 116s, whilst not that easy either, are just that much more user friendly. So, with the 108/109, I would go for fuel injection, and preferably the V8 engine. With those models,however, you'd need to look out for ECU issues. I would like to see Mark come in om this (as well as Helmet, of course), with further opinions and advice - other than what I have written. Regards Styria

 

[Michel]

I would second the Godfather on the head sensitivity with the six cylinders and the dramas with the twin carby set up as those early carburetors tend to warp and become useless even after shaving the bases.
Otherwise it's a beautiful shape and nothing beats the feel, power and sound of a V8 in a Benz!

 

[Oversize]

Put a 450 DJet in one!!!! And try n find a manual transmission..... Or if you're concerned about the weight, find a later 280 KJet. Perhaps you could use the early engine (with high compression) and transplant a 280KJet head and injection system? Add custom extractors because the engine pipe Y pieces always cracked.

 

[260ebenz]

Hi Tony,

Would have thought a 2.6ltr straight six M103 engine would have better fuel economy compared to a V8 W116 or W108 Mercedes?

 

[Oversize]

A 3L 24V driveline would be nice, but the mounting it within the chassis and the wiring could be a nightmare..... While a 5.6L from a W126 might sound like another option, the cost would become a concern.

 

[abl567]

Now you all know before I start that my response is going to defend the 6.3 so all roll your eyes together to get it over with and I'll start

Yes the 6.3 can be troublesome, if you go into it with your eyes shut. As always buy the best one you can afford and be sure it has been looked after by someone who knows them backwards, inside out and upside down.

There are plenty of resources and a vast amount of knowledge available from the interweb on M100 cars, the International M-100 group in particular and the members there offer that knowledge freely and enthusiasticly. They will walk you through diagnosis and repair of any problem you may encounter.

The air suspension is not the mystery it is made out to be, a bunch of bellows and some valves to control the amount of air in the bellows and so the ride height of the car.
Heater taps sieze on neglected cars, by a looked after example and problem gone, by a late car and the taps are relocated to the bottom of the heater core, easily reached, later cars also have a simplified vent control set up wih only 4 bowden cables not 6. King pins are readily available and common to all Benz cars from '59 to '72, if you can use a ream you can set them up yourself.
The MFI can be worn and need rebuilding, I had mine done for $1100 and my car now returns 17-18 mpg, and I drive it in the manner it was intended to be driven

I've had my car since mid 2006 and done about 26,000 miles in it and only once did it leave me on the side of the road with an electrical problem, the light switch had failed and the ignition feed runs through it. Cost me $75 and a few hours to put right.
My car now owes me a fair bit less than reckon I could get for it and values will go up, not down.

Drive one, feel the mountain of torque and raw performance they offer over their 2 M100 siblings and you will be sold. Unless you are old like Styria

 

[Styria]

OMG, did you really have to hit me that hard below the belt ? I'm still on the floor writhing in pain. I think you know that I really used to think that 6.3s were the ultimate (remember, I bought my first one more than thirty years ago), and I still think they're a great car with reservations - there have to be some, let's face it.

We're not going to have a great big barney over this, as it is not necessary. I recognize that all king pins are shared by the various models, but don't forget that you also have the top and bottom threaded bolts, and they are not easy to set up when they require replacement - and the kits are not cheap. Getting back to Tony's brother, I would imagine that a 280SE 3.5 is the one to have some potential as far as increasing in value is concerned, and they have been holding their value well - certainly a few years ago, but I am not up to speed on present values. Regards Styria

 

[abl567]

I hate when you are right Styria

 

[WiSeGuYY]

Hi GUYS , i must shut up and just listen to the MASTERS when they speak , ABL & GODFATHER were streatching their knoladge about our beloved BENZ in my openion they both RIGHT when it comes to the STAR product , i'm still making my version of RED PIG with no aim for speed , just the look.
So i was not really kean of having the manual transmition, the V8 6.3 engine the air suspension , thos was not my AIM , NEVER WAS .

So i guess i'm like the GODFATHER not up for speed. JUST ADMIRE THE PAUL BRACQ.with a bit of AMG twist and touches , so i settle for the 3.0 ltr 6 CYLENDER M103 with the classic look.i think it is more than enough for the weight of the w108 and the roads in here in my COUNTRY EGYPT

REGARDS

TAREK

 

[Styria]

I hate when you are right Styria

I honestly think, Anthony, that getting the Injection Pump sorted is probably just about the single most important improvement effected to your car. I am sure it has transformed the car to actually deriving pleasure and satisfaction from driving it. Reasonable economy, in fact brilliant for a 6.3, and you no longer have to worry about fouled plugs and petrol washing off the lubrication on the cylinder walls and contaminating the engine oil. It is just such a significant overall improvement. Regards Styria

 

[Tony66_au]

Ok a few things Anthony (or Antony?) has mentioned are pretty much exactly what I need to know.

First up, He has strongly indicated a preference for a 6.3 so lets go with that for now.

He was also warned about the 2.8's being very worn by now and not a safe bet anymore.

He give not one rats testicle for economy (Tim) and wishes to drive something majestic, fast, quiet and with more pull than a drunken teenage girl.

He will also not be doing any spannering himself and will instead be finding a good Benz guy and getting him to sort such things as King Pins and Pneumatic airbag suspension as any wise newbie should do.

Sooooo what year do the later cars begin? and I assume they end in 1972.

I also appreciate the level of expertise here and all opinions are gratefully received and digested.

And now i have some PM's to read and reply to!

 

[Tony66_au]

BTW he was also thinking of a Grosser until I mentioned the hydraulics.........

Hydraulic windows............... Really? WOW!

 

[260ebenz]

Ok a few things Anthony (or Antony?) has mentioned are pretty much exactly what I need to know.

First up, He has strongly indicated a preference for a 6.3 so lets go with that for now.

He was also warned about the 2.8's being very worn by now and not a safe bet anymore.

He give not one rats testicle for economy (Tim) and wishes to drive something majestic, fast, quiet and with more pull than a drunken teenage girl.

He will also not be doing any spannering himself and will instead be finding a good Benz guy and getting him to sort such things as King Pins and Pneumatic airbag suspension as any wise newbie should do.

Sooooo what year do the later cars begin? and I assume they end in 1972.

I also appreciate the level of expertise here and all opinions are gratefully received and digested.

And now i have some PM's to read and reply to!

Tony please!


He give not one rats testicle for economy (Tim)

I know you were only joking it's cool mate.

 

[Tony66_au]

LOL Well.... He doesn't!

His Missus was looking at buying one of those hybrid Camry's, He said if she did he would Pop over to my place once a week and burn a few tyres on a bonfire to even up any Eco advantage from the Hybrid.