The use of ATF in your fuel

[Styria]

On a number of occasions, especially on the M100 site, there have been strong debates regarding use of that oil in your petrol supply in order to clean injectors and the fuel system in general, but also it appears that it can be useful in freeing up sticky rings thereby restoring lost compression and a number of other side benefits.

Therefore, the question I have is this - has anyone on our discussion board had any experience with using ATF in this application and what have been the results ? I do recall JohnS suggest the use of ATF in the engine oil lubrication system, but I cannot quite recall his exact recommendations. RonB., very active on the M100 site and also a 'distant' member of Topklasse, has had a very satisfactory result from the use of ATF, and Ron's findings have to be treated with the respect that needs to be accorded to an experienced mechanic. I'd be interested if anyone else has an opinion on this natter.

Both Gleaming Beauty and the Astral Silver 6.9s have had their heads removed in the last few months, but I am inclined to to follow Ron B.'s lead and start using the stuff at a 100:1 ratio - say every second tankful. Regards Styria

 

[Martin280s]

I occasionally use 2/stroke in Lady Genevieve's fuel, just for that bit extra lubrification, LG is a garage queen though! Although in my W124 (Lady Augusta) I just use good-quality fuel. I find there are enough additives for the fuel injection system in a regularly used car.

 

[abl567]

I use about 500ml in every tank to ensure the MFIS is kept clean.
ATF also increases octane slightly, without it I can experience ping in Six 3 if driven really hard, so almost every drive

 

[SEL_69L]

The burn and ash characterstics of ATF should be considered; it is not meant to be used as a fuel. However, a technical inquiry to the oil companies could be helpful. On quite a different note, my 6.9, when I bought it, had ATF in the suspension system, and had been there for some years, according to the previous owner; it certainly did not seem to leave any deleterious effects, although I only use hydraulic fluid now. It may be noteworthy however, that you can get away with it to use ATF in the suspension system in an emergency, without much risk.

 

[John S]

ATF has a very high detergent concentration so that a cupful in the engine oil just before an oil change can help clean an engine out, it will also quickly clean up hydraulic tappets that are starting to clatter.

For the fuel, I once added a small carton of 2 stroke oil to the fuel of a Cortina whose engine I had rebuilt, and I have no idea what it did - but that engine quieted right down and ran much smoother within about 10 miles. I have tried it on other cars since then and noted no difference to them so I didn't continue using it, but I assume that it must help with upper cylinder lubrication.

 

[OzBenzHead]

I used to give my cars an occasional taste (1:100) of ATF in the fuel, then a club member put me onto his trick (which he applies to his dozen or so cars, including a one-cylinder De Dion Bouton):

Use instead of ATF a 1:100 dose of synthetic two-stroke oil in the fuel. I use one from Stihl, but it is suspected to be a repackaged Shell or Caltex product.

Because it is synthetic and made to a low-smoke recipe, there is effectively no soot or ash to bother about.

It allegedly cleans out the fuel system much the way that ATF is supposed to, but has the added (claimed) advantage of providing a little upper-cylinder lubrication.

Does it do any good? Dunno. Harm? Dunno. But my cars always start first time, even those that get started once a month, and always seem to run fuel-trouble free.

 

[TJ 450]

I have been using ATF in my 450's fuel system for a while and surprisingly, I experienced a clogged fuel filter. It has since been changed along with the fuel distributor, fuel pump and new injector nozzles.
I would consider the blocked fuel filter as possible evidence to suggest that the cleaning ability of ATF as an additive is quite effective.
However, it may have dislodged some foreign matter that caused the blockage in the fuel distributor that was missing the inlet strainer... something to be aware of. It's a bit like dislodging engine oil sludge.

Apparently, it was first used as a fuel system additive in Sweden? to allow easier starting and better fuel economy in the cold climate.

Tim

 

[s class]

I've been watching these debates for some time, but had never tried it until recently when I chucked 500ml ATF into the 450SL's fuel tank. I haven't done enough mileage though to form an opinion on its usefulness.

 

[BenzBoy]

On a number of occasions, especially on the M100 site, there have been strong debates regarding use of that oil in your petrol supply in order to clean injectors and the fuel system in general, but also it appears that it can be useful in freeing up sticky rings thereby restoring lost compression and a number of other side benefits.

Therefore, the question I have is this - has anyone on our discussion board had any experience with using ATF in this application and what have been the results ? I do recall JohnS suggest the use of ATF in the engine oil lubrication system, but I cannot quite recall his exact recommendations. RonB., very active on the M100 site and also a 'distant' member of Topklasse, has had a very satisfactory result from the use of ATF, and Ron's findings have to be treated with the respect that needs to be accorded to an experienced mechanic. I'd be interested if anyone else has an opinion on this natter.


Both Gleaming Beauty and the Astral Silver 6.9s have had their heads removed in the last few months, but I am inclined to to follow Ron B.'s lead and start using the stuff at a 100:1 ratio - say every second tankful. Regards Styria

Styria - I thought you had tried ATF in the Gleaming Beauty some time back. What was the result then, apart from smoke from the exhaust? Remember the trip on the M5 when you almost met the motorcycle police?
My reading indicates quite a number of people who seriouslyy do support the use of ATF and I understand the one I use (made by VW) has a similar chemical profile.
Regards,
Benz-Boy

 

[Styria]

Hi BenzBoy, that was then , but now is now. As with some things, you just don't go on experimenting, and this is no exception. In those days, the engine in Gleaming Beauty was marginal in a number of areas and, in the end, the valve grind and de-coke became necessary.

Today is a different ball game, as I have two 6.9 engines both in good condition after recent work (touch wood !) and one could almost contend that the experimental use of ATF should no longer be needed. There is, however, still the issue of 'old' standard rings that have not been touched despite all the work carried out and, as RonB seems to indicate, the use of the ATF appears to have cleaned up the rings to the extent that he now has difficulty to turn the engine in his 6.3 ! If I can achieve that sort of situation, I'd be more than happy.

Mind you, I have seen 6.9 rings from an engine with , purportedly, only a fairly small mileage (maybe 220k to 300k - really not sure) but totally worn rings and no amount of ATF would fix them. Again, we are likely to finish up with some sort of question mark over the subject matter. That's why I am curious to see the outcome of S-Class' recent experiment. Regards Styria

 

[Tony66_au]

Years ago it was common practise to pull the spark plugs on the family car once every 6 months or so and squirt 50 ml of Redex (Upper cyl lube) down the plughole, leave it for an hour then refit plugs, chuck half a pint into the fuel tank and then start her up and go for a bit of a drive to de coke the heads and free sticky rings.

My Uncle who was service manager at a Gippsland Benz dealer told me when I started doing it in the early 80's that trans fluid does the same job and much to my delight created as much in the way of plumes of white smoke....

However with fuel today this is no longer an issue and de coking heads is a thing of the past.

Funny thing is I Still add 250 ml trans fluid per 50 lt every so often and most recently to my Daihatsu Applause which now runs just a tad smoother and chalks up 12 to 1400 km per week.

Id also suggest the economy is far better as it now achieves 15-17 km per litre depending on Air con usage.

I've tried 2 stroke using Super TT Synth low ash and Penrite marine 2 stroke and with the rangie she did quieten down a smidge and showed a small increase in torque on hills but the engine comp is way down on the old girl too.

In small amounts I cant see an issue with ATF in fuel systems and if it creates a leak then there was an issue there already only highlighted by the ATF use.

Cheers,
Tony

 

[Styria]

Funny you should have a Daihatsu Applause. You may well ask why it should be 'funny' ? Well, I once had a ride in one - about 23 years ago - and its owner was quite taken in that the car would pull away in fifth gear from a thousand rpm onwards. His Applause replaced a Rover 3 litre MarkIII which an ex-friend of mine bought. Today Tony, it is surprising to still see the occasional Applause being used as daily transport - very rare for a Japanese product - and just about all of them are in much better than average condition. Another Japanese product that comes to mind with similar characteristics is the Mitsubishi Nimbus - still about, most in nice condition and still looking good from a stylistic point of view. I well recall that I absolutely loved the looks of them when they were new. Regarding the use of ATF - I just keep forgetting to addit to my fuel. Regards Styria

 

[Tony66_au]

This Applause is one of the first, a 1990 model and it has surprised me as it has over 330'000 km which is a fair bit for a 16 valve 1.6 litre engine.

Id spent its entire life on LPG until I bought it and had the system removed and the car paid for itself in fuel savings in less than 2 months but I did have a lot of fuel system issues because the fuel tank was rusty and the injection system neglected.

The Air con blows very cold and everything works as is intended despite its high mileage and it drives far better than a Corolla of similar age and is quiet at highway speeds so I can see why Toyota acquired Daihatsu and then quickly stopped their promotion in Australia (The Applause) while leaving the Charade and numerous AWD and 4WD products to fade into obscurity about the same time Toyota started their own small Four wheel drive vehicles.

Things I notice and mark as weird, the HVAC system is electrically controlled, plenum flaps etc and almost silent and perfectly functional even after 21 years of use, I find the front end treatment/design odd and yet it produces no wind noise and gives excellent parking visibility and other small design quirks that tell me that new buyers were getting more than they paid for and that this car could well have hit corolla sales hard.

Other than that? The thing drive like a Go Cart, is very chuckable in the wet or dry and once the cam kicks in it goes very very hard.

Tony

 

[Tony66_au]

BTW Styria, I believe that ATF is just a cheaper version of any upper cylinder lubricant and Redex or Moreys would do a similar job although as a higher expense.

 

[etmerritt33]

I can vouch for Ron B. on this! I have been using ATF at 100 to 1 in my 6.9 since I've had it. Pretty consistently too. I would say that there is a noticeable improvement in how the engine runs with ATF in the gas tank.

I also use it in my 85 euro 280E 5spd with the same great results.

Even though I have a basically new induction system on my 6.9 I believe that using ATF will help to keep it clean and functioning well.

I would caution against going more than 100 to 1 ratio. This isn't one of those deals where if a little is great a ton will be incredible.

Hope this helps!!

- Tom

 

[Styria]

Interesting comment, Tom. Like with most things, one needs to maintain a constant procedure in order to get the hoped for benefit. Over the years I have tried many additives, primarily for engine oil, but in a round about sort of a way one doesn't really know to what extent the additives are useful.

I readily recall when, as long ago as ten years, Gleaming Beauty would emit constant oil smoke when cruising on the open road, and it seemed to be worse either on Shell or Castrol - I don't remember which. As I said, that was about ten years ago, yet today, when last tried on the open road, the engine seems to run perfectly well, and there is no evidence of the oil smoke when on the overrun. Of course, I did carry out a valve grind and de-coke in June of 2009. Maybe that fixed it all ? When one thinks about it, the engine in Gleaming Beauty is still on its original piston rings some 33 years later. I mean, really, how remarkable is that ? One of my boys was born in the same year, and who would have thought that this engine would still perform strongly ? In the meantime, I maintain that a good quality oil, with a change of filter every six months irrespective of mileage, is probably good insurance. Regards Styria

 

[Tony66_au]

Just remember that US fuel is nothing like Australian fuel boys so your results may vary.

 

[Des]

ATF has a very high detergent concentration so that a cupful in the engine oil just before an oil change can help clean an engine out, it will also quickly clean up hydraulic tappets that are starting to clatter.

When would you recommend doing this? 50-100k's before taking your car in for a service and oil change?

I have a high mileage engine so that might be of benefit.

 

[abl567]

About 250k's works

 

[BenzBoy]

Is there any guarantee that this is safe? Do we know for sure?
Regards,
Brian