Clutch problems - C180M - W202

[s class]

My wife drives a 1994 W202 c180 manual. I am suspicious that the clutch is on its last legs, but I have very little experience with manual shift cars.

The symptoms - when pulling off gently from a stop, as one lets the clutch out, the first bit goes OK, then it shudders quite a bit, then its OK as it reaches the top of its range. Its not an issue of not being able to drive a manual - when we first got the car I could let the clutch out perfectly smoothly with no shudder- buts its getting steadily worse.

Ideas?

 

[John S]

The symptom described could be coming from a number of things, such as dodgy engine mounts to a worn clutch or even oil on the clutch. Is it getting worse very slowly or is a change noticeable from day to day? What is the mileage? Has the clutch been replaced already or had any work done on it since new?

 

[s class]

Hi John,

The car shows 234 000km. We bought it only about 2000km ago. It has had all its scheduled services at the main dealer, but I have no information on other work that may have been done. At that mileage, I would have to assume it cannot be the original clutch - surely not?

I didn't think of oil - the car has no external leaks - perhaps there's an inspection plate that can be opened.

Engine mounts are another possibility I didn't think of. I'm guessing it must have the newer style hydraulic items like the W140's.

 

[s class]

Another thought that may be relevant - the symptoms are almost completely absent whe the car is cold, and only appear when it is up to temp, especially in traffic.

ANd as to your earlier question - no its not getting significantly worse from one day to the next - its just slowly steadily becoming an issue. When we bought the car, there was just the slightest hint of it, now its all the time.

 

[BenzBoy]

It's normal for a cluch on the way out to be OK when cold and then to become difficult when warm - because it is slipping.
Regards,
BenzBoy

 

[WGB]

Oil on the clutch or engine mounts would be my first thought.

I have had cars with clutches in the past which did exactly what your car is doing when the clutch was replaced with a cheap aftemarket clutch.

My Daughter's MX5 did the same from new and was only fixed by a new clutch put in by me after repeated refusals by Mazda Australia to fix it. I found out later it was an endemic problem in that model and it has been suggested that Mazda gave 12 new clutches for the whole of the country to the 12 who complained the most. I still have the old clutch and there appears nothing visible wrong with it. Mazda only replaced the driven plate apparently but I did the lot and I think it was only about $450 for the costing wthout my labour,

To be properly repaired it should have had a new driven plate,pressure plate, throw-out bearing and had the flywheel resurfaced/replaced but I would imagine someone just put in a cheap driven plate and put it back together.

It doesn't sound like it is actually slipping so it is probably servicable with gentle use but my memory was they juddered more when treated gently and were better with some harsher use.

I think the major problems started with the end of asbestos and some friction materials are better than others.

Bill

 

[s class]

Thats interesting Bill. I would say there is definately no slipping. And I think you are right it responds better to being driven a bit more vigorously.

 

[Styria]

Hi S-Class, there have been some very useful, and appropriate suggestions as to the cause of your problems. Quite clearly, to me anyway, the unit is worn out after all this mileage. You'll need a new clutch plate and throw-out bearing, a skimmed flywheel and a re-built and serviced pressure plate. Although possible, I have my doubts about oil on the linings or engine mounts worn out. My op. for all it's worth. Regards Styria

 

[s class]

styria,

I'm inclined to share your line of thinking in this - again no disrespect to the other opinions offered.

My knowledge of manual trannys is such that I don't know what a throw-out bearing is - perhaps its an issue of parlance - is it perhaps what we in South Africa would refer to as a thrust bearing?


If I were to purchase a new 'clutch kit', do I understand correctly I would get everything I need, except for the flywheel, where the original item would be skimmed and reused?

Thanks guys, I am grateful as this is a bit O.T.

 

[BenzBoy]

I'm still opting for a burnt clutch plate given the symptoms. Why would it be necessary to skim the flywheel? That is very rarely required.
What a kit contains varies according to manufacturer. A thrust bearing is not usually included in the kits that I have bought and installed.
Given the symptoms, I am betting that after a drive of a few hours the plates will either stick together or slip so much that changes will become difficult - and will come back close to normal when the unit cools down.
There is only one way to know - strip it out and see. The same symptoms can have a couple of causes but the most common is just plain wear so go for the most common first.
Regards,
BenzBoy

 

[WGB]

It'll work fine without skimming the flywheel but it won't last as long.

Clutch thrust bearing is just insurance for a hard worked part in a dusty environment.


Bill

 

[WGB]

Another thought - when I replaced my daughters MX-5 clutch the flywheel surface was covered in some sort of coating that had seeped out of the clutch lining.

Because the car only had about 40,000k I never bothered with skimming the flywheel but the stuff was very difficult to remove.

It would not come off with lacquer thinners or such-like and in the end I think I used fine emery.

I did put in a new clutch plate, coverplate and throwout bearing and it was perfect after that.

Bill

 

[BenzBoy]

Given the variety of approach and opinion here, I think you should bring the car to Australia and let us have a Topklasse workshop on your clutch. That way we can fix it and decide which one of us knows how to do it.
I have to ask, would anyone be brave enough to let us loose on their car?
Regards,
BenzBoy

 

[s class]

Good approach BenzBoy,

The W202 will not be making it to Aus. Its just an interim run-around for my wife until we emigrate.

I hope the clutch lasts for a few more weeks because I have too much workload (job and my own cars) in July to play with clutches.

At present I'm finishing the W140's paintwork (prior to selling it), and trying to get trusty rusty back on the road - I've got to pass a roadworthy inspection before the end of July.

 

[John S]

234,000 k's without as record of a clutch replacement? There's a very good chance that the clutch is worn out. The less slippage it endures the better it will be until it's replaced, so a more aggressive use of the clutch is probably the way to go at the moment.